More Bothy bother

[fatbikephil]

Saw this on the beeb today - seems to be on the increase,,,,,,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-48921280
Might have to start carrying my axe on bikepacking trips

[Bearbonesnorm]

It really is very sad and even sadder is that I predicted this kind of thing years ago ... but with hindsight, sadder still was the number of voices raised shouting 'elitist' and proclaiming that everyone had a right to know where bothies were etc, etc

[composite]

Is it actually on the increase though?

I mean rubbish at certain locations has been a problem for many years and as have stories of parties etc. Bothies have been vandalised for years as well. Is it really that it's any worse now or are we just seeing the stories more?

[Bearbonesnorm]

My experience would indicate yes Neil but others may differ. However, I'd also imgine that the forming of 'bothy watch' by the police, MBA, FC, etc as highlighted in the article is a reasonable indicator of how things stand?

[composite]

However, I'd also imgine that the forming of 'bothy watch' by the police, MBA, FC, etc as highlighted in the article is a reasonable indicator of how things stand?

Well that's a very fair point.

Was it you who was at maybe Nant Rhys when a lad turned up scouting for a party location and you told him the bothy was going to be full that weekend. At which point he said something like "It's people like you ruining what we use these places for".

[fatbikephil]

An issue particular to Scotland is that a number of places used for road side camping which were getting a lot of abuse have had bylaws made to ban camping. I think that a lot of the folk who used to do this have moved to Bothies.

They won't walk in a long way mind you but the ones in the Borders and Kielder are close to roads so are targets. Bothy watch is already in place in the Kielder bothies for info

[Bearbonesnorm]

Was it you who was at maybe Nant Rhys when a lad turned up scouting for a party location and you told him the bothy was going to be full that weekend. At which point he said something like "It's people like you ruining what we use these places for".

Not quite. A lad did turn up at Rhys looking for a party venue for that evening and I f*cked him off and told him to go to Syddion. He arrived at Syddion only to be f*cked off from more Boners who happened to be there unbeknown to me

[restlessshawn]

Sadly they have become the destination rather than part of the journey. I've only had one actual bad experience at a bothy but had to clean up after a few more. Sadly I find it's putting me off using one now just in case...though I am in a massive bikepacking lack of mojo anyway

I ended up leaving the MBA Facebook page as I just found it depressing reading and some idiots telling me I couldn't read a map as I said Dryfehead was in D&G and not the Borders

The current open access model is doomed. I think genuine users will avoid them more and more unless desperate.

Regards
Elitist

[Ray Young]

The current open access model is doomed

You may well be right but whats the answer? Locking them isn't going to be practical and even if you did the party goers would just break in.

Reading bothy log books has become depressing with the maintenance officer making ever more desperate pleas for people to not leave food, rubbish, cut live wood etc. Geensykes has a long drop loo 20m away but even that was too far away for someone decided to use the toolshed.

[restlessshawn]

The current open access model is doomed

You may well be right but whats the answer? Locking them isn't going to be practical and even if you did the party goers would just break in.

Reading bothy log books has become depressing with the maintenance officer making ever more desperate pleas for people to not leave food, rubbish, cut live wood etc. Geensykes has a long drop loo 20m away but even that was too far away for someone decided to use the toolshed.

Honestly I don't know, which isn't very helpful I admit!
I'll probably let my MBA membership lapse at the end of the year as I feel I am funding party huts now, maybe everyone will and the whole thing will implode.

I had thought about a gravel spin out to Dryfehead and Greensykes this month but might just go camp somewhere else instead.

[Ray Young]

Greensykes is getting very popular. Only used Dryfehead once and had it to myself.

[restlessshawn]

Dryfehead has a long drop just up the track now apparently. Definetly quieter as more of a hike in.

[AlasdairMc]

Greensykes is getting very popular. Only used Dryfehead once and had it to myself.

Yep, me too in Dryfehead. This was in January though so it might be expected - the party lot are less likely to venture out while it’s cold.

Gameshope thankfully, and deliberately, doesn’t have a fireplace to keep it quieter as it’s really close to a road. However I think a picture of it was on the BBC article as it looked familiar.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I usually don't bother with MBA bothies anymore. If I require a roof I'd much rather find something 'unofficial'. As has been said, for many, bothies are now a destination rather than part of a journey. How many times do you see people asking where the nearest parking is?

I don't know what the answer is either. I hope that interest will simply fizzle out over time but I also wonder how long the bothies can hold out for while they wait for that to happen.

I still can't understand why the MBA began to publish the locations. Doing so seemed to also open the door for the numerous books and articles published that have driven interest. Surely keeping locations within the MBA membership might have helped?

[whitestone]

Have stopped in three of the Kielder bothies (and visited one other), all I think are under Northumbria Police's bothy watch, actually not Kershopehead as that's in Cumbria.

We visited Spithope over an Xmas holiday and it had a group of Geordies ensconced in there along with turkey and all the trimmings but they were fine, hardly typical ravers Kershopehead had a couple of Carlisle lads in there who'd walked in from the nearest road head - well oiled but well behaved. Flittingford we had to ourselves.

I'm sure there was a thread on here about the abuse of the bothies in Galloway involving some very unsavoury characters out of the Ayrshire area.

Not just ravers though. There was a guy in Melgarve on the first night of the HT550 who wasn't particularly welcoming by all accounts and when Cath and I were heading in to An Cladach on Islay we chatted to the bloke at the house at the roadhead who related a tale of an individual refusing to let a young couple use the bothy as "he'd got it for the night".

In response to Stu - the same chap stated: "you didn't find out about the bothy (An Cladach) from that bloody book did you?"

[ScotRoutes]

Bothy locations were already "out there". I had a gpx file of the MBA ones way before they made them public. The ethos still lives on in Facebook though. The UK bothy Facebook page bans publication of non-MBA locations,

I've never been a frequent bothy visitor but I'm aware that a few were closed down and/or demolished in the 80s and 90s as they were being abused even then (i.e. pre-Internet).

[whitestone]

Bothy locations were already "out there". I had a gpx file of the MBA ones way before they made them public. The ethos still lives on in Facebook though. The UK bothy Facebook page bans publication of non-MBA locations,

I've never been a frequent bothy visitor but I'm aware that a few were closed down and/or demolished in the 80s and 90s as they were being abused even then (i.e. pre-Internet).

It takes quite a bit of work to keep things quiet - look at the efforts in keeping The Secret Howff, well, secret. Doing that for the hundred or so MBA bothies plus all the others would be nigh on impossible. It only takes someone to say "we stopped at ..." and a bit of map detective work would reveal its location. I've got several of the SMT guides to the Scottish mountains and the various bothies are noted both in the text and in the index, these are from the late 1970s and early 1980s.

[Bearbonesnorm]

True that locations may have being 'out there' but you either had to join the MBA, put in some detective work to find them or rely on word of mouth ... which only really came about if you moved within certain circles. Maybe I'm wrong but I recall there seemed to be an unwritten but widely understood code that locations weren't shared openly.

When something becomes a 'bucket list experience' then it loses some value and along with it, respect and care. The bothy appears to be a casualty of that mindset.

[Cheeky Monkey]

...
When something becomes a 'bucket list experience' then it loses some value and along with it, respect and care. The bothy appears to be a casualty of that mindset.

Maybe, the reporting of "parties" (as per BBC link above) may be on the increase because more publicity has got more people going to them (more legitimate-type use, be it bucket list or "normal" shelter) and so there are more "users" acting as reporters of the party stuff.

[sean_iow]

I don't know what the answer is either. I hope that interest will simply fizzle out over time but I also wonder how long the bothies can hold out for while they wait for that to happen.

If the 'unsavory' users drive to the closest point then perhaps if someone gets to a bothy and there's an inappropriate party going on you ride to the nearest road and torch* all the parked cars Once word gets round that if you drive to a bothy for a p%ss up that when you leave the next day you'll find your car burnt out the free venue will seem less attractive?

But being serious, I don't know that can be done. Educating people wont help, it's the same will all other anti-social issues, the people that will pay attention and change their ways aren't usually the issue and those that head to a bothy to drink special brew and smoke weed don't care

*This obviously clashes with out LNT policy, so might have to be downsized to just removing the valves from all their wheels?

[Ray Young]

I still can't understand why the MBA began to publish the locations.

As far as I know the MBA had to let the public at large know the locations of their bothies after accepting public funding to help their cause. Not sure if it was Lottery funding or EU funding. Maybe it's been shortsightedness on their part applying for and accepting the funding that's led to the current/future problems.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I had wondered whether it was something like that Ray given that, they're registered charity. As you say, I wonder if funding might eventually dry up if more members leave and the new users don't bother to join - they obviously no longer need to join in order to find the locations.

[gallowayboy]

The Galloway bothies (and others no doubt)have been misused for years...my pals and me would regularly go to shiel o' castlemaddy, backhill o' bush or white laggan for a "party" (ahem) in the eighties. We always took our rubbish away, never abused or denied other users and turned the music down or off if we were not on our own. We lived locally, were hillgoers as well as partiers and I'd like to think we didn't overstep the mark - we were better quality Ned's. Same wasn't true of everyone tho' and the net result was the end of shiel, the deterioration of backhill and the fire at crossburn. We had a tense evening trying to share shiel with a group of cumnock lads who stripped the wood panelling for fuel. That was the end for me, and I'm wary of bothies near roadheads.
I think a lot of this will run its course, maybe some of the less remote bothies will close (bothies less than a couple of miles from parking seems a bit unnecessary?), And I hope the fuss will die down.

[Bearbonesnorm]

maybe some of the less remote bothies will close (bothies less than a couple of miles from parking seems a bit unnecessary?)

I think I misunderstand you. Surely the remote bothies are (a) the best ones (b) the ones least likely to get visited by bell-ends and (c) situated ideally for their intended purpose?

[gallowayboy]

Yeah, the ones more likely to attract Ned's may have to close..that's what I meant