Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:49 pm ....performance biased market.

indeed
how many of us give a rats ass about strava when bikepacking?

I always use Strava for rides - including bikepacking.

"Mullet Racing" .

I don't think using Strava means the classification of a ride changes it from bimble / meander / wander to that of race, does it?

If it does I've been doing it wrong for quite a long time now.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:17 pm I don't think using Strava means the classification of a ride changes it from bimble / meander / wander to that of race, does it?

I hope not as I've never gone past a bimble , possibly moved to a meander at a push

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:36 pm Is it time do the bikepacking =/= racing thing again?

And let's hope self-supported racing doesn't inheret the "ultra" tag any more than it already has :)

(Deep USA blockbuster film trailer voice) : "This race season. The Ultra-Divide(TM). Are you ready to take on the toughest? Will you be the fastest UltraBikepackerman(TM) on the planet?" Blah ..

Oh, and Hunt's Instagram. Have they said how those pics came about?

jameso wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:01 pm Oh, and Hunt's Instagram. Have they said how those pics came about?

I'm not sure if they've cherry picked the ones relevant to them or if the photographer was employed by them, there are other riders in the pics but it does seem looking at the Hunt feed that it's centred around Josh.

It's definitely about Josh. Look at Ryan le Garrec (the photographer's) instagram feed - he even tags the photos #dudewhereisJosh for goodness sakes. I can see why Lael's crew might feel hard done by.

I'd been following the photographer, saw some of his pics and really like them but hadn't spotted the link to hunt.

That photographer and 'other van film crew' is totally hunt and/on mason backed. Been having a gander the other day it becomes fairly clear.

Feel Lael and co have every right to feel hard done by the double standards

Should have clarified my terminology

Bikepacking = racing (in the context of my observation)
Professional = anybody getting a reward for their participation in the ‘sport’’ (including freebies*). Not a definitive definition, just my opinion, based upon how the IOC used to view the distinction between amateurs and pros, before they gave up on the concept of amateur!

I expect the happiest riders are those who are just doing it for the pure fun of the ride, without the worry of pleasing sponsors, or the self-induced pressures from chasing ego-objectives that motivate some ‘racers’. Such outcome-based gratification leads to disappointment or transient happiness.

Sonya Looney, a very smart pro MTB endurance racer, has an excellent podcast which recently did a piece on happiness, which I thought was very insightful. She’s the only Vegan (a word she deliberately rarely uses, for obvious reasons) whose opinions I value.

*BB badges and stickers probably don’t count, before you ask, Stu!

Feel Lael and co have every right to feel hard done by the double standards

Yeah, can see that. If hunt/mason had permission to follow riders and take photos then the only difference is they were far more subtle about it beforehand, a wise move in hindsight.

I think the whole camera crew shenanigans is actually fairly straight forward and clear-cut.

Is it an advantage?

Arguably not.

Is it going against of the spirit/rules of the TD?

Definitely yes.

Knowing that there is a vehicle with 'friendlies' in it (especially if they're your significant other but even if they're just randoms from your sponsors) that's following you, always within reach if help should be needed is, without doubt or credible argument against, a form of support.

Should it continue to be against the rules?

Could the spirit of the TD be retained whilst allowing film crews?

Good questions but they're for another time and place. Right now it's not cool.

So don't do it or by all means do it but then DNF yourself.

Simples.

Jamesh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:16 pm That photographer and 'other van film crew' is totally hunt and/on mason backed. Been having a gander the other day it becomes fairly clear.

Feel Lael and co have every right to feel hard done by the double standards

The Hunt crew most likely didn't do that stirrup the other crew did.
They/she wanted attention, she got it.
They seem to take it negative, lets hope they learned from it rather than just go on and see themselves as victims.
Funnily, through a long distance hiking friend I know the helping person at Specialized. Small world.

Lael has finished her tour, quoted as finishing in 18 days.

I’m sure some will be cynical of her ride but I think it shows great spirit to DSQ yourself and then carry on for another week or so and finish the tour. She obviously wanted to complete the ride (although no doubt someone soon will point out the filming rights...)

Having said what I said above I'd like to clarify that I think that Lael and her team did absolutely everything they could, going above/beyond the call of duty and showing great integrity and character, whilst trying to force a square peg through a round hole.

I think she's absolutely amazing and a great ambassador for our little the niche sub-genre of cycling.

In slightly(?) less contentious news: Alexandera Houchin is on the final road down to Antelope Wells with about 30 miles to go. She's well ahead of the current women's SS record.

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:47 am In slightly(?) less contentious news: Alexandera Houchin is on the final road down to Antelope Wells with about 30 miles to go. She's well ahead of the current women's SS record.

She's also well ahead of the second placed woman Really strong ride from her and in all the pictures I've seen she's always looked liked she's loving every minute of it

Alpinum wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:06 am

Jamesh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:16 pm That photographer and 'other van film crew' is totally hunt and/on mason backed. Been having a gander the other day it becomes fairly clear.

Feel Lael and co have every right to feel hard done by the double standards

The Hunt crew most likely didn't do that stirrup the other crew did.
They/she wanted attention, she got it.
They seem to take it negative, lets hope they learned from it rather than just go on and see themselves as victims.

Fair point on attention sought, though the question over how it relates to the ethics of this particular race are the same. I'd hope both discussed it with Matt Lee and were clear on what they were doing and risking before proceeding.
My point is the same, that what the TD means to me and many others would be undermined by a camera crew in a van appearing around me. Even if they asked on arrival. It's not about my thoughts if course, though I think it's ok to defend rider ability to race the TD as origially intended without intrusions motivated by brand marketing. If we're past being able to defend that the TD as I understood it is in the past.

An interesting piece on documenting the Tour Divide - https://bikepacking.com/plog/2019-tour-divide-recap-1/

Looks like he went out of his way to avoid unduly interacting with the riders.

Alexandera has finished, 18 days and 20.5 hours I make that over 4 days faster than her time for last year

whitestone wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:58 am An interesting piece on documenting the Tour Divide - https://bikepacking.com/plog/2019-tour-divide-recap-1/

Looks like he went out of his way to avoid unduly interacting with the riders.

I can't read that and look through his pictures and be anti documenting the TD.. not when it's done like that. That's about all the coverage the race needs and it's shot + written so well.
It's a fine line between what a 'crew in a van following' means to me compared to someone who's followed the race for a long time driving, camping and taking time to get shots, so it's difficult isn't it. A grey area.

and again, AH rules

sean_iow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:31 am Alexandera has finished, 18 days and 20.5 hours I make that over 4 days faster than her time for last year

Great ride Alexandera! Every picture of her does show her smiling, and shows that a great attitude goes a long way. Also, she said that her legs were her secret weapon - and we've seen that they're pedal smashing artillery! As an aside, her SS Ti Chumba looks the absolute business...

And we have our second British bouncing dot - Les Brown

And part two of the bikepacking photo thingy - https://bikepacking.com/plog/2019-tour-divide-recap-2/