Ultimate limit of human endurance found

[BigdummySteve]

In the rides rides of a week or more I’ve done eating has been a major factor. After 3-4 days my body turns into an eating machine, if I eat enough I can keep going for 16 hours , another interesting thing I’ve experienced is a craving for protein in the shape of KFC chicken burgers. Not normally something I would eat but I couldn’t pass one by.

[drjon]

ive skimmed through and not seen it - but if any of youse guys are interested in this stuff, read Mike Stroud's books...ive a passing interest int he physiology and the use of it too. pretty cool stuff, and Stroud is the man.

[jameso]

^ Bonnington expedition climber/doctor, same guy?

[drjon]

not sure if he did stuff with bonnington....did with ranulph fiennes...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/022 ... bl_vppi_i0

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/014 ... bl_vppi_i1

both excellent books...and a good story teller to boot!

[padonbike]

The paper it comes from (linked in the BBC article) was interesting too. I wonder if the adaption to elevated energy consumption and expenditure for very extended periods during pregnancy is part of the reason for a narrowing of the performance gap between male and female athletes as events increase in duration?

Unfortunately, it is only political correctness - certainly not data - instructing us that there is, "a narrowing of the performance gap between male and female athletes as events increase in duration":

100m running sprint WR - Male 8.7% faster
Marathon 26.2 mile running race WR - Male 10.2% faster
HT500 ~ 4 day MTB race gender course records - Male 11.3% faster.

Still, I guess it's a nice soundbite for our times.

[thenorthwind]

Unfortunately, it is only political correctness - certainly not data - instructing us that there is, "a narrowing of the performance gap between male and female athletes as events increase in duration":

100m running sprint WR - Male 8.7% faster
Marathon 26.2 mile running race WR - Male 10.2% faster
HT500 ~ 4 day MTB race gender course records - Male 11.3% faster.

Still, I guess it's a nice soundbite for our times.

Interesting. I'd always believed that to be true too.

Having a look at the records for the classic fell running rounds, there's a couple of exceptions, though I'm not sure what this proves (possibly that Jasmin Paris is some sort of superhuman?)

Ramsey Round - Female 5% faster
Spine Race - Female 15% faster

[Lazarus]

IMHO it makes more sense to use cycling so
So 500 m flying lap male = 24.75 Female = 28.97 or 17% difference [ if my maths can be trusted]

this is a higher gap than the HT550 - read into that what you will

[Bearbonesnorm]

With regard to the male / femal divide (if it exists) are we not just all individuals regardless of sex? Are some people just not mentally tougher and perhaps more able to cope with the stress? Are some people not simply more determined and bloody minded than others? Do some people not actually enjoy the physical / mental effects of prolonged activity whereas others simply try and endure?

[Lazarus]

the male female physical divides exists

Lets use an easy example
men are, on average taller than women
This does not mean every man is taller than everyone woman [ or every man can beat every female cyclists]as we all know that is not true.
Now whilst the tallest person in the world may be a woman it wont alter the average size difference between the genders
With cycling the same is true, men are , on average, physically stronger than women. Given this rule you would be unwise to bet on a female in a race v men and if you do you are going to lose many many more times than you win. [ its not impossible for a female to win but it is highly unlikely].

The mental stuff is undeniably true - the best are physically strong and mentally very strong - or in soundbites a winner never quits and a quitter never wins.

[redefined_cycles]

the male female physical divides exists

Lets use an easy example
men are, on average taller than women
This does not mean every man is taller than everyone woman [ or every man can beat every female cyclists]as we all know that is not true.
Now whilst the tallest person in the world may be a woman it wont alter the average size difference between the genders
With cycling the same is true, men are , on average, physically stronger than women. Given this rule you would be unwise to bet on a female in a race v men and if you do you are going to lose many many more times than you win. [ its not impossible for a female to win but it is highly unlikely].

The mental stuff is undeniably true - the best are physically strong and mentally very strong - or in soundbites a winner never quits and a quitter never wins.

Bravo... bravo. Confucius couldn't have said it better himself

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'll not argue that there are physical differences but when we're discussing the 'ultimate limit of human edurance' I'm tempted to think we've surpassed the purely physical and the mind is playing a much bigger role ... different to, "I can't get the lid of this jar".

... and besides, I know for a fact that women are 97.4% more stubborn and bloody-minded that the male population

[whitestone]

Currently the fastest woman on the Bob Graham Round is Jasmin Paris in a time of 15hrs24mins. When she did that time the fastest male time was Billy Bland in 13hrs56mins so was roughly 10% slower. She happened to be the fifth fastest of all time so it wasn't as if there were lots of men in front of her. There's only been another two since she set that time.

There's also the effect of local knowledge - Billy lives in Borrowdale and that record round was his third time around the route plus countless other days on the fells - you could probably drop Billy on the fells anywhere in the Lakes in thick mist and he'd be able to tell you where he was.

A difference of 10% might seem a lot but consider that male successes on the Round outnumber female successes by 11 to 1 and things get cast in a different light. Interestingly the success ratio for women is slightly higher than that for men, not by much but it's noticeable and pretty consistent over the years. Possibly women hold back from attempting it until they are sure whereas men will "just have a go".

Edit: Just went over the data for the years 2012-2018. Success rate for men was 1 in 2.25, for women it was just over 1 in 2.

What would be more use would be to see the distribution of times in races at various distances.

[thenorthwind]

Just been discussing all this with my girlfriend (who's a runner FWIW) over a beer and as she pointed out, to neatly summarise what Lazarus said, of anyone who finishes a challenge like that... "They're all anomalies anyway." Which is worth bearing in mind.

[jameso]

Lael Wilcox won the TransAm, good enough for me to believe women can be equal to men over long distances. How many men have done sub 17 days on the TD (as she's done) and how many men and women each are there riding at that level?

In all the noise of circumstances over these distances I doubt there's much in it over really long events. The pool of established, conditioned male riders is far bigger than female riders so you wouldn't expect equality in results, just a few women showing that they can be up there on the day.

[fatbikephil]

Long distance stuff is about head, not leg, head is down to personality, not gender. For stuff like the HTR you've also got to add in riding ability, nous and use of kit, also not gender specific.
The main difference is that more men do it than women, hence the bias towards men for results.