Side wall sutures

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Moder-dye
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Side wall sutures

Post by Moder-dye »

Just wondering if anyone has used these in their kit for any sidewall splits?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nylon-Silk-P ... 3513882701

I usually have my leatherman on trips for pliers too.

Seems sensible for the price and size and you could even get all Rambo if you have an unfortunate spill :lol:
lune ranger
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by lune ranger »

Something similar.
Go for 2/0 silk or non-absorbable synthetic as a minimum. Numbers that are expressed x/0 get thicker as the number gets lower. Single numbers then get thicker. 0 or 1 silk is ideal.
Stitching with a curved needle in harder than you might think, you will need your pliers to do it well.
Remember one suture will do one job as the thread is attached to the needle.
When I've done it I've squirted some superglue into the stitched slit. Did a 15mm cut like this in Feb. The fix is pretty much permanent.
Last edited by lune ranger on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Moder-dye
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Moder-dye »

Cheers :-bd
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by lune ranger »

BTW I'd use the super glue on me rather than the suture :o Sterile skin glue if you can get it but any superglue in a pinch :-bd
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Lazarus
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Lazarus »

used a curve needle, dental floss and super glue to repair a 30mm slash [ from rim to tread ] and it was easy to do but does not look anything like neat - third day of a multi day trip so neatness was not my main concern at this point

the curved needle was harder to use than a straight one IME- by the time you are repairing to this degree you will have the tyre off anyway [ or it will cost a few minutes in the middle of 30 mins faff in my case] so i think i would prefer a straight needle

is the thread on the needle - I struggle to thread needles so I did have to use a larger needle than I would want to -no pliers used to do this mind.
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by whitestone »

I've a Black Diamond Expedition Sewing Kit (now Patagonia) that I bought in the mid 1980s and hadn't used it until last year's WRT when we came across someone with a split sidewall near to Bala and I remembered I'd packed it.

Image

Edit: seen top right in the image is the included awl and cotter pit which hold a needle making pushing said needle through thick material (like a tyre sidewall perhaps :???: ) much easier. My kit also has a "threader" which makes threading the needle much easier: push threader through eye of needle; pass thread through eye of threader (this is much bigger than the needle's eye); pull threader back through eye of needle.
Last edited by whitestone on Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ron Thomson
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Ron Thomson »

Dental floss works good for stitching and has more than one use. :-bd
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Moder-dye »

lune ranger wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:51 pm BTW I'd use the super glue on me rather than the suture :o Sterile skin glue if you can get it but any superglue in a pinch :-bd
The Rambo bit was a joke-ish. I have butterfly sutures in my first aid stuff anyway and failing that duct tape and cable ties to fix an arm back on :???:
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by benp1 »

I carry dental floss (take it out the plastic packaging, it's tiny) and a needle (in a bit of straw) to deal with anything like that

I have to say that I've never used it, but I figure I could fix a tyre of a bit of kit as required
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by lune ranger »

Lazarus wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:23 pm
is the thread on the needle - I struggle to thread needles so I did have to use a larger needle than I would want to -no pliers used to do this mind.
Surgical suture will have the thread attached to the needle. Straight needles are also common.
Guess you could pre thread your dentsl floss at home to avoid faff in the field.
For me anything that avoids removing the wheel is worth it. For the record I used a straight needle with the tyre mounted. It was messy as hell but effective.
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by TheBrownDog »

Back in my 1980s touring days I would carry a spare tyre and it came in very handy many times. But I also used the awl on my Swiss Army Knife with some thick waxed cotton thread once or twice. Very messy. Very time consuming. Still worked. These days I just carry a Park Tool tyre boot and some Araldite. I've only had to use it once on a 2cm tear and it worked fine. But the conditions were dry and it was very easy. Not sure it'd work so well if Id be cycling through a Chilterns mud fest, or if I were in t'wildness. I'm no fan of Superglue because it's not particularly flexy, and your tyres are rather flexy.
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Alpinum
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Alpinum »

Having used Prolene and Mersilene with different needles at work I once used a set outdoor on the sidewall and much prefered the classic straight needle and thread afterwards.

There are half bent surgical needles for visceral surgery. Look for canoe and ski needles.

But as said, you need pliers to hold them (they are meant to be used with special holders in surgery after all...) and good luck when trying to stitch DH casing...

Nope, regular needles for my bike please.
And a strong PE star thread.

And dental floss? What's the craze? It's a big thing in long distance hiking for sewing. Why not just take a bloody thread?

Little advice, make sure to check your needles before you head off. See below for reference
Alpinum wrote:From the mini tool thread a half related fun story:
Alpinum wrote:
padonbike wrote:Mini tool an obvious, but do others also pack compact pliers?
Can't get the locking off the tubeless valve to put a replacement tube in without one. Or get the presta valve core out to add a shot of sealant in case of a less severe tyre mishap. :geek:
Got mine as a giveaway.
I saw them on display in outdoorshops in Scandinavia, but can't remember the name. Something monkey something.



All I need (ed so far)

Image
Not shown, duct tape, sewing kit (3 needles - make sure they're not rusty) super glue, zip ties, wire.
edit: tube in the blue glove

A little, topic related story from my 2016 Iceland trip:

I treat tyres well on my first crossing. Basically from Reykjavik to Akureyri by hiker & horse riding tracks, also the full Kjalvegur (including the lesser known northern extension).
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On the second crossing of the interior I ride from Myvatn on old jeep tracks to Laugardalur, from there into Askja and from Askja to Landmannalaugar. It was actually meant to be a recce trip and now I some how ended up riding across the country in deep state of piece with myself.
The regular rhythm of the pedalstrokes, the hours of riding in the often void landscape, have put me where I belong.

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Some couple of 100 km later my rear tyre goes flat real slow. In quite a bad spot. I need to move to stay warm - I'm working with mother nature on the verge of stupidity and when she shrugs, I'll be in trouble.
Fixing flats on the move is not something I have mastered yet.
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I found the side wall to have a small tear, likely just from rubbing on the rim (!).
I've never been so calm while fixing a flat. Tubeless is not working any more so I throw in a tube. Little later I'm off and ride hard to get warm again.

250 km later...
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I'm in the middle of nowhere on the Sprengisandur (a track that see's some traffic), it's about 19:00 and I was hoping to ride a very long day right into Landmannalaugar. I make the decision to quickly bodge it together, find water and camp and fix it properly when I feel like it. Landmannalaugar it shall not be tonight, but another night in the "desert".

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I ride up a hill from where I see moss - yay! I steadily cruise downhill and meet a bloke who seems to roam the Icelandic highlands in undies. Meet Morgan, a Polish guy who wants to cross Iceland to the south east on foot on a similar route I did some years ago. His tent is close by. I make camp next to his. We chat about route choices, life and stuff and drink whisky and smoke.
Like animals in the wild at the water hole.

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Another night with lights!

Not long into the next day my quick fix fails. It fails here:
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HELLO! IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE? It's soo good to be selfsufficient. I have time, fair weather (cold wind) and full of good spirits. Calm as ever.

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I lay out all my tools to see my options. Whilst I'm at it I clip my nails too. This is how laid back I'm still feeling.

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Three needles are found in my sewing kit. All rusty. They have been on seakayaking and packrafting trips and I've never checked them - mistake...
Two are rusty at the eyelet and break as soon as I try to work with them
The only one left is only rusty at the tip - lucky me.

Soon it too breaks but...
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with my mini swiss pocket knife I make it pointy again. With this little knife I cut two entangled sheep free from an old fence prior on this trip. It's a bloody life saver.

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Before I start I check how I need to stitch to make best use of the thread, as it isn't that long. Next time I'll take 2 meters or so. I would have liked to sew it in a tighter Fashion, but am happy with the result.

A super jeep and two old tractors - Massey Fergusons go past. They ask if I need help.
"Nope, I'm just fine thanks."

Next up, protect the seam.
I roughen up the rubber and use vulcaniser. Nope... doesn't seem to work. I try again. Nothing.
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Then I try it with super glue - it works immediately,

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I appreciate my work of art (not less) and am really happy to see what my little tools and self are capable. A good team.

I hammer down the Sprengisandur, loosing more height than gaining it and close in on the tractors. We have a fun chat and they love my art work.

I hammer on. The track can be ridden quite fast, but it's well rough - washboard, big rubble, sand. A short Stretch of tarmac and of towards the colourful Fjallabak.
70 km later and 20 km before Landmannalaugar my fix fails:
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20 km. Another 60 min or so. I'll give it a quick fix and ride on.

500 meter before the inviting hot streams of Landmanna, my tube and tyre go kaputt beyond (reasonable) repair. No bodging. I ride into Landmanna on a flat.

Next time, besides the checking the needles before leaving home, I bring some webbing along, to support the seam.

I never stopped believing that I would ride into Landmanna that same day under own steam. I had visualised it so much, anything else wasn't probabilistic...
Thank feck I had those tools with me.
whonickedmename wrote:Running tubeless here.

I tend to take one spare tube for local rides or when near to a source of backup, two if I'm way out in the sticks.

Perhaps I could pack a little lighter!
About the same here.

Has the lower rolling resistance and more compliant feel when going tubeless already been mentioned? (well, now it has...)

I also highly recommend plugs as in Maxalami etc. They are a great thing to carry.
[/quote]
Lazarus
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Lazarus »

cheers lune but there is literally no way i can thread a needle I would require someone elses eyes - hence why i ended up with massive needles as a compromise.
I will try those and see if they are better.
for those repairing surely your tubeless set up was lost so you are going to have to put a tube in so removing the wheel is not that much extra time?
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by lune ranger »

Yes, changing to a tube maybe easier. My only bad tubeless experience was the 15mm cut I mentioned previously. Fixing the rip with the suture, tyre left in situ, took maybe 10-15min max and it held for the next 2 1/2 days riding. Can't see fitting a tube and tyre boot being too much quicker. This way my spare tube (scary Tubolito) remained unused and still there as a backup.
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Ron Thomson
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Ron Thomson »

Alpinum wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:14 pm

And dental floss? What's the craze? It's a big thing in long distance hiking for sewing. Why not just take a bloody thread?

Not a craze, just not interested in flossing with thread. :wink:
ripio
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by ripio »

I've successfully stitched up sidewalls with dental floss a few times, usually stick some gaffer tape over the repair on the inside too, and have also stitched a gaffer tape patch over the repair on the outside.
Last for months, no problem, you can usually feel the effect of the slight tyre bulge though, and better to move the repaired tyre to the back wheel if it was on the front, just in case.
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Alpinum
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Re: Side wall sutures

Post by Alpinum »

ripio wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:48 pmLast for months
As did fixes with regular (strong) PE threads.
A blob of shoe goo across the seam and the tyre is tubeless ready again - though you'll have to wait over night for it to settle.
Duct tape has only worked for tubeless in combination with super glue and didn't last long.

Thing is, dental floss has a rather weak tensile strength and can easily be pulled apart. The PE thread (star thread) I usually use to fix shoes, rucksacks, tyres etc. is significantly stronger.

Thinking about it, I could give the student some threads to compare on our mechanical testing machine :geek:
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