Packed bike weighIn Thread

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sean_iow
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by sean_iow » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:13 pm

whitestone wrote:Most hardtails seem to be in the 11-13kg range (the sub 10kg bikes are nearly always carbon fibre race machines).....
I often wonder how the superlight setups are obtained. They either have very light bikes or don't take anything with them :lol:

My bike when I first built it, 10.8kg (23.8lb) on the scales.

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Titanium frame and carbon rigid fork, Hope race brakes. The wheels could be lighter but not by a large amount? The Jones bars/Thomson seatpost and Brooks C15 could be swapped to save a bit, carbon Jones bars, carbon seatpost and lighter saddle could save 0.5kg. Note I'm not taking the extra weight of gears and this was without bottle cages/lights.

Last years BB300 I think my bike and rucksack together were approx 19kg (42lb) including food (lots) and water (1L), but my sleep kit was only for emergencies as I took a non-breathable bivi bag. I packed with the intention of not stopping so didn't have any luxuries.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Scattamah » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Something often overlooked on this subject is tyre weight. I run Nanos or Nine Lines at max 2.1" around the time of WRT, so I'm easily going to save 100-500g or more just in rubber alone over say a 2.3" or wider, or even a more robust 2.1 or 2.2". The trade off with less rubber being a weaker tyre, usually in the sidewall dept. Touch wood, it's not something that happens often unless I'm attempting a pass at being a hoon.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ianfitz » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Scattamah wrote:Something often overlooked on this subject is tyre weight. I run Nanos or Nine Lines at max 2.1" around the time of WRT, so I'm easily going to save 100-500g or more just in rubber alone over say a 2.3" or wider, or even a more robust 2.1 or 2.2". The trade off with less rubber being a weaker tyre, usually in the sidewall dept. Touch wood, it's not something that happens often unless I'm attempting a pass at being a hoon.

Greetz

S.
Although as a counterpoint I’m happy to run 2.3+ exo tyres (on 35mm carbon rims!) for more comfort and tougher sidewalls.

For me the weight ‘penalty’ is worth it.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by sean_iow » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:14 pm

The Michelins on the bike are 770g each so I could save maybe 20 to 50g per tyre. They are a 'race' tyre being the competition line. But it's a good point as some tyres can be over 1kg each. I used to run Barons on my 26" bike in the winter, over 1kg but a good workout and bombproof, not so much grip though and hard enough to last years :lol:
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by redefined_cycles » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:35 pm

ianfitz wrote:
Scattamah wrote:Something often overlooked on this subject is tyre weight. I run Nanos or Nine Lines at max 2.1" around the time of WRT, so I'm easily going to save 100-500g or more just in rubber alone over say a 2.3" or wider, or even a more robust 2.1 or 2.2". The trade off with less rubber being a weaker tyre, usually in the sidewall dept. Touch wood, it's not something that happens often unless I'm attempting a pass at being a hoon.

Greetz

S.
Although as a counterpoint I’m happy to run 2.3+ exo tyres (on 35mm carbon rims!) for more comfort and tougher sidewalls.

For me the weight ‘penalty’ is worth it.
I'm with Ian on this aspect... got a lovely 1.45kg 2.5" WTB Convict tyre which rampages through almost everything. Took a while beinging myself round to putting it on mind you but am happy and side wall protection etc etc and grip/non slippiness on the tires is a 'no comprimise' for me... Maybe 1.45kg for a 2.5 inch 650b tyre (tyre) might be a bit much though but will sort when it wears down...

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by RIP » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Mountain King 2.2 RaceSport - 560g. Not slipped to a stand so far :wink:. So v good point Scott chap, poss 2kg saving right there. Although plus admittedly 125g per tube. Still dunno how to get down to 31 - maybe ditch the chocolate. What am I saying.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by whitestone » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:45 pm

1.45kg for a tyre? The tyres on my fat bike (45nrth Vanhelga) are lighter than that!

Tyres are a pretty personal thing though and we each have our "go to" makes and models. In my case it's the Bontrager XR series, around 700g per tyre depending on the knobbliness. I've yet to rip one.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:52 pm

I think the key to a lightweight package (ignoring the rider), is to start with a lightweight bike. I can take half the kit of some and yet my bike will nearly always be the hernia inducing one when it comes to passing them over a gate. When your frame weighs 2kg more, wheels 400g extra per end, etc, etc, it soon adds up and balancing the equation out with a reduction in kit takes some doing.

I tend to view 50lb as a happy upper limit for most folk. Up to that weight people seem quite happy to pedal / push all day but once you begin to approach 60lb, the saggy bottom lips and sulky expressions begin to appear far earier in the day :wink:
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Lazarus » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:01 pm

Water? Take a water filter like the MSR Trailshot https://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.c ... =trailshot
I do take one but still start a ride with my water bottles full

Agree with the point re weight it just depends what you want on a ride and where your wallet/commitment ends.

Sometimes i take my brukit - weight penalty but fast and can use it in the tent [or quickly and easily in poor or wet weather] sometimes i take the bearbones mini meth stove - lightweight but much more faff and never used in the tent . Basically at some point weight penalty will reduce functionality [ front suspension forks being another one for me]

Its just a compromise between wallet, terrain, expectations and your own personal red lines [ sleeping for me as nothing is worse than a crap nights sleep on multi day rides.]

I suspect we all get to a point where it will do but we could always TLS/ reduce weight [though we may regret it if we rip tyre or get wet /cold at night

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ScotRoutes » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:20 pm

redefined_cycles wrote:
ScotRoutes wrote:
RIP wrote:Bob's 35 lb 'red line' is interesting in that that's what many of us have reached and then sort of stopped. Apart from Nick of course, who to be fair takes the prize even though it was almost awarded posthumously which takes a certain beyond-the-call-of-duty dedication :smile: .
I'd say that 35lb is a difficult/expensive target for most. A look at the WRT spreadsheet embedded above would back that up. I'm guessing I'm around 44-45lbs all up and getting another 10lbs off that would be a challenge for me.
Wheres the spreadsheet embedded??
It was on this thread...
http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... n+wrt+chew
Richard G wrote:Same thing... but sorted by weight / name.

Code: Select all

31.5 - Zippy
32.5 - Ben
33.0 - Adam
33.5 - Ian
35.0 - Nathan Crew
39.0 - Si Jones
39.5 - Chew
40.0 - Adam Barry
40.0 - Rob Courtney
40.0 - Scott
41.0 - Danius
41.5 - Silver Oliver
42.0 - AlpNick
42.0 - Ione
42.0 - Taylor
42.0 - Si Gair
43.5 - Adrian Baskerville
44.0 - James Gout
45.0 - AlpBen
46.5 - Jon Price
47.0 - Dean Page
47.0 - Malc
47.0 - Nick Gilling
47.5 - Claire Fox
48.5 - Rob Cox
48.5 - Steve Davis
49.5 - John Climber
49.5 - Neil Parks
49.5 - Will Clover
50.0 - Clink
50.0 - Kov C
50.0 - Mrs Burty
50.5 - P Bowler
51.0 - Bryan Doyle
51.5 - Dom Taylor
52.0 - Alex McClaren
52.0 - Kat Booth
52.0 - Si Derby
53.0 - Peter Slingerland
53.0 - Sam Good
53.5 - James Pallat
53.5 - Leigh Robinson
53.5 - Scott Pibworth
53.5 - Steve Bennett
54.0 - Alex Dewar
54.0 - Mark Landon
54.0 - Will Good
54.5 - Jerry Cornish
55.0 - Barry Doyle
55.0 - Jim Barrow
55.5 - Rich Garcia
56.0 - Alex Taylor
56.0 - Fi Garmody
57.0 - George
57.5 - Graham Brown
58.0 - Huw Williams
58.0 - Pete Duncan
59.0 - Neil Sykes
59.5 - Dave Warner
59.5 - Mark Wareham
59.5 - Rich Henderson
60.0 - Burty
60.0 - Jamie Lockwood
60.0 - Matt McKenna
60.0 - Sam Hunter
60.5 - Ian Marshall
61.5 - Danielle Bradley
61.5 - Valance
62.0 - Jo Chapman
62.0 - Karl Booth
62.0 - Mart Cotterill
62.0 - Rich Smith
62.5 - Mark
63.0 - Mark Underwood
64.0 - Carey
65.0 - Chris Poole
66.0 - Lou
67.0 - D Lovett
67.0 - Mart
68.0 - Andy Fry
68.0 - Simon Briggs
68.0 - Tim Swift
68.5 - Rhys Rolf
73.0 - Diane Snape
73.5 - Jeremy Thomas
74.0 - Jeff Fox
74.0 - Mat Drewery
80.0 - Andy Smith

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ScotRoutes » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:25 pm

whitestone wrote: Yes, I looked at that list and saw very few under 40lbs, maybe it's a bit harder than I thought. I suspect that living where you do you need slightly beefier kit than those of us in the soft south :lol:
It certainly makes a small difference. for instance, I consider a Cumulus 250 as pretty much the minimum as a bag/quilt. I can imagine a few nights per year when I could go lighter but not sufficient to warrant the additional expense.


One thing this thread has made me think about is weighting all my kit again though, in the event that there are some easy savings I can make. At the very least, I plan to use meths whenever I can, instead of gas, but that's as much to do with the wastage of canisters as it is packing weight.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:44 pm

What you're going to read next is perhaps something that may only apply to a small % of people but I know it does apply to others besides me and can really help to reduce what you're carrying .... there are some people who take a certain pleasure in the act of 'enduring'. I'm not talking about suffering, I'm talking about enduring which is possibly the same as suffering but you'll be smiling while doing it - and it's the smiling that makes the difference. Knowing that you can rise above (Zen-like :wink: ) hardship or discomfort is actually a great feeling, you all but stop worrying about things, you care far less about what kit you have or don't and it really is quite liberating.

Perhaps you have to be of a certain character or make-up, I don't know but remember ... it's not suffering if you're either enjoying the experience or you simply don't care.


I did warn you at the start, didn't I?
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by redefined_cycles » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:54 pm

Three cheers for endurers... I mean sufferers :-bd

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by psling » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:48 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:What you're going to read next is perhaps something that may only apply to a small % of people but I know it does apply to others besides me and can really help to reduce what you're carrying .... there are some people who take a certain pleasure in the act of 'enduring'. I'm not talking about suffering, I'm talking about enduring which is possibly the same as suffering but you'll be smiling while doing it - and it's the smiling that makes the difference. Knowing that you can rise above (Zen-like :wink: ) hardship or discomfort is actually a great feeling, you all but stop worrying about things, you care far less about what kit you have or don't and it really is quite liberating.

Perhaps you have to be of a certain character or make-up, I don't know but remember ... it's not suffering if you're either enjoying the experience or you simply don't care.


I did warn you at the start, didn't I?
Oooh, that should be a whole new thread :wink:

The tipping point between enduring and suffering will vary greatly between different people (and can indeed be influenced by the people you may be with at the time).
I can often experience a period of what for me is suffering during a trip, possibly due to weather conditions in certain terrain for example, but will look back on it afterwards with a sort of masochistic pleasure, a sense of satisfaction that I have endured that suffering if you like. On the other hand, work colleagues cannot understand for one moment why I go out in sub-zero temperatures to sleep in a bag in the middle of nowhere. I do that because I enjoy it, not to endure it :cool:
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Asposium » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:What you're going to read next is perhaps something that may only apply to a small % of people but I know it does apply to others besides me and can really help to reduce what you're carrying .... there are some people who take a certain pleasure in the act of 'enduring'. I'm not talking about suffering, I'm talking about enduring which is possibly the same as suffering but you'll be smiling while doing it - and it's the smiling that makes the difference. Knowing that you can rise above (Zen-like :wink: ) hardship or discomfort is actually a great feeling, you all but stop worrying about things, you care far less about what kit you have or don't and it really is quite liberating.

Perhaps you have to be of a certain character or make-up, I don't know but remember ... it's not suffering if you're either enjoying the experience or you simply don't care.


I did warn you at the start, didn't I?
Look in the dictionary

To endure, see boner

BB200 2018 comes to mind
Was a test of many boner qualities

I sometimes feel knowing oneself helps with an ability to endure
A bit of introspection
I’m fine so long as not (too) cold; start to get a major sense of humour failure if I can’t warm up.
Being in the cold is not the same as being cold.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Scattamah » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:09 pm

Nicely put, Stu - both the unloaded bike weight and the state of mind.

Lois was pretty reasonable weight out of the blocks. Maybe 11Kg? That said, pork pie goodness was only achieved with 3 years of parts collecting where I could. Changing the fork from Fox Float to Niner RDO was 800g diff.

And a hearty yes to all of you that choose tougher tyres. I have seen the way some of you ride and its much more aggressive than my style. Tougher tyres makes sense.

Good thread folks...keeps me sane during the commute just now.

Greetz

S.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ianfitz » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:05 am

psling wrote:
Bearbonesnorm wrote:What you're going to read next is perhaps something that may only apply to a small % of people but I know it does apply to others besides me and can really help to reduce what you're carrying .... there are some people who take a certain pleasure in the act of 'enduring'. I'm not talking about suffering, I'm talking about enduring which is possibly the same as suffering but you'll be smiling while doing it - and it's the smiling that makes the difference. Knowing that you can rise above (Zen-like :wink: ) hardship or discomfort is actually a great feeling, you all but stop worrying about things, you care far less about what kit you have or don't and it really is quite liberating.

Perhaps you have to be of a certain character or make-up, I don't know but remember ... it's not suffering if you're either enjoying the experience or you simply don't care.


I did warn you at the start, didn't I?
Oooh, that should be a whole new thread :wink:

The tipping point between enduring and suffering will vary greatly between different people (and can indeed be influenced by the people you may be with at the time).
I can often experience a period of what for me is suffering during a trip, possibly due to weather conditions in certain terrain for example, but will look back on it afterwards with a sort of masochistic pleasure, a sense of satisfaction that I have endured that suffering if you like. On the other hand, work colleagues cannot understand for one moment why I go out in sub-zero temperatures to sleep in a bag in the middle of nowhere. I do that because I enjoy it, not to endure it :cool:

That’s type 2 fun. Miserable st the time but great afterwards.

Having experienced types1, 2 and 3 fun and also what stuart describes I think they are two separate processes.

I strongly identify with what Stuart says from my first 2016 ht550 for example.
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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by redefined_cycles » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:34 pm

Thought this to be a good a place as any to add my 'I lost weight' ramble...

Swapped out the Outpost cages (which in fairness are obviously alot stronger and a bigger weight limit) for the DOM Gorilla cages and lost a grand total of over 160g for the pair.

Also managed to reduce my bivi bag bulk from (Goretex army issue) 940g to a lovely but scary light (Borah m90) 205g.

Total weight saving thus far of 900g :smile:

Couldn't help thinking to myself when attaching the Cages with bags, "my, these feel flimsy"...

In case Scott (Scattamah) is reading... yes, I did swap out the bolts for the lighter alloy ones that was in yhe fork to save an extra 12g per 6... :cool:

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:05 am

Alloy bolts? A step too far IMO. I hope you don't pay for it later.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by redefined_cycles » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:29 am

ScotRoutes wrote:Alloy bolts? A step too far IMO. I hope you don't pay for it later.
Could be right. I think the trick might be that I didnt over torque them and the whole system being so light means they should be right... torqued to around 3nm (with the naturally calibrated bicep/finger/pinch torque system :grin: off course).

At least I think they are alloy as they seem it as well as being around 1.5g as opposed to the 3g bolts that came with the Gorilla cage... They are the ones that come as stock with the Travis Prong forks :-bd

Ps. I hope I dont pay for it either :o

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by ScotRoutes » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:48 pm

Just for my own interest I'm going to start weighing stuff.

First up is my VN Amazon at 11.25kg (24.8lbs).
Thats with 650*47 Horizons, 3*10 gearing, BB7s and XT dynamo hub and lights fitted. Not sure there is any weight to be saved, though the Horizons are a bit lardy and it has Woodchippers.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by htrider » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:02 pm

Light weight ain't all its cracked up to be (I would say that as both the Jones and the Ice cream Truck are certifiable tanks) but bear with me. Take tyres - people bang on about low rolling weight etc. but that means BA when your light weight tyre just let slip on the nth muddy climb, or the sidewall just got ripped on a rocky bit. Liberate yourself and fit some proper tyres with huge knobs and solid side walls. Any perceived increase in rolling weight / resistance is massively offset by the fun factor of being able to get grip and ride through rocks with careless abandon. Likewise uber lightweight bits - of little benefit if they break (and cost a mint). Plus a heavy bike has a tendency to plough through things rather than bounce of them which is quite handy at the end of a long day when your ability to control a wildly bucking machine is limited.

Think of yer vectors - whats the max gradient you are likely to be riding up - say 1:3 = 18 degrees ish.. so an increase in 5kg = 50N of force acting vertically downwards (for eg. = 10 cans of lager) equates to an additional force of only 16N resisting your mighty leg power i.e a 1.6kg weight pulling you back which isn't nothing but its not much. So saving the odd 200g's here and there feels good but in reality makes little difference. (Until you have to carry the ******d)

Which is no reason to carry a load of extraneous stuff but worth bearing in mind if you are about to spend an eye watering amount of cash on a bit of kit in order to save a few g's

PS:- losing weight of yer belly will always be better than losing it of your bike, will save money rather than costing it and enables you to fit into size medium BB kit to boot

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by Lazarus » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 pm

i think the reality is we all want the lightest toughest kit that is dependable and where you make compromises is your choice[ not tyres for me either]. The other issue is how far and how many days you are going 2 kg extra over 5 days and 500 miles is a different prospect from 2kg extra for a 60 mile overnighter.
I have a heavy bike [Longitude 29 lbs ]and a light bike [spearfish 25lbs ish* ]. What I am riding matters [terrain and distance]more on the choice of bike than weight. The FS almost always goes to actual mountains and the Hardtail pretty much everything else.

FWIW this thread did make me weigh all my stuff - 55g for two tyre levers and the puncture repair kit box alone weighed 22 g - I have saved weight thanks to this thread :-bd When i have finished i reckon i will save about 500 grammes [ mainly replacing inner tent for tyvek and the netting stu uses.]
the only way i can loose weight is to sacrifice a limb


* depends what bars and whether i run the dropper.

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by RIP » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 pm

A sacrificial lamb? Or limb? Or limb off a lamb? Or? Gawd I'm confused now :wink:

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Re: Packed bike weighIn Thread

Post by redefined_cycles » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 am

Reg also knocked a phenomenal 28ish gram off his pole :lol: ... it will make him faster up them climbs and once he's done that 30 times (of which it seems he already has over 15) he'll have saved 2lb...

I've also got a tyre (note the correct spelling) thats 1.45kg and its called Convict and I aboslutely love it... unfortunately wanting to ride such a tyre means I needs to shed weight elsewhere otherwise I doubt I'd enjoy this bikepacking lark...

Dont forget (at least as far as I understand) bikepacking and bikepacking bags were/are engineered so we can go farther, faster...

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