Yet another GPS question

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Mitomaniac
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Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:39 am

I have a wahoo elemnt which is a fantastic unit except for riding routes in areas I don't know as it doesnt recalculate or adjust your route to get you back on track if you go off piste and you have to start from the exact start point of the route before it will start following with some off road routes this can be challenging to do. I can follow routes on it which I can import from various third party apps with ease but I find this easier in areas I have some familiarity with.


What mapping based GPS unit for under £200 would people recommend I'm happy to use it alongside the wahoo as the wahoo can record rides etc just want something to follow routes on that will adjust and adapt as the day develops.

I have looked at the etrex 30 X and 35t but they get mixed reviews especially about being slow to respond and render maps etc. I had a Garmin 820 and it drove me so mad that I swapped to the wahoo and I'd rather not go back to Garmin bike computers I just need something a little better with better map views.

Using my phone is a bit tricky as I can't find a weather proof case suitable for it as it's a OnePlus 5t.

pistonbroke
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by pistonbroke » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:47 am

Seems I'm turning into an Edge Explore fanboi but seriously this meets all the criteria including re-routing.The screen quality and map refresh at cycling speeds is spot on as well. I got one from Amazon for €225 which is just under your top price even with the crap exchange rate atm. Mapping is ok and routable cycling based but you can download better ones straight to the unit for free.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:48 am

My initial thought is - will any gps to get you back on track if you go off course? Something like the eTrex with colour OS mapping might make it easier for YOU to devise a way of doing so but any map either paper or electronic will allow YOU to do the same. Relying on a gps to do it sounds like an easy way to find yourself in places you don't want to be. :wink:
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Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:53 am

I've always got a real map when I'm out in unfamiliar territory. Just wanted the easy cheats option really I guess and it's always nice to be able to pull a GPX file and see it and familiarise myself with the route too.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:02 am

The ability of any GPS to devise a route is mainly down to the mapping (a) is it routeable and (b) dies it show all the possibilities.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:03 am

I have all of Wales / N England 1:25K OS mapping on my touch. If I need to detour from the line on a screen, I simply use that to devise a route on the fly. I suppose I'd be bothered that a gps couldn't make judgements based on experience and would simply route me down anything / everything. I see that as much less of an issue if I were riding on road but the thought of doing it here scares me.
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Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:10 am

ScotRoutes wrote:The ability of any GPS to devise a route is mainly down to the mapping (a) is it routeable and (b) dies it show all the possibilities.
The wahoo doesn't re calculate tho that's my issue and if you deviate it won't update until you go over the checkpoint it was expecting you to

Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:12 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I have all of Wales / N England 1:25K OS mapping on my touch. If I need to detour from the line on a screen, I simply use that to devise a route on the fly. I suppose I'd be bothered that a gps couldn't make judgements based on experience and would simply route me down anything / everything. I see that as much less of an issue if I were riding on road but the thought of doing it here scares me.
I live in the lakes myself and would never entirely trust a gps to route but if it can update and accept I skipped a part that would be perfect. Is it the touch 35 you have ?

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whitestone
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by whitestone » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:12 am

Not sure how the Wahoo devices work but on Garmins there's a difference between a "route" and a "track". Confusion arises because people ask for a "GPX route" when what they really want is a "GPS track", i.e. the line that someone else has either ridden or created on some software platform.

A "route" is just a series of waypoints and the device will try to work out a way between them. Once it comes up with a route (which may or may not be optimal or a preferred way) then if you wander away from it the device will recalculate how to get back on track (see what I mean about confusing terminology).

A "track" is a series of recorded positions taken from a previous activity that you can pass on to someone else for them to follow exactly. There's no recalculation to get back on-track.

As an example, if you took some of the GRs from the BB Winter Event and entered them as waypoints then a Garmin would work out a route between them in the order that you add them. All nice and easy but it might not be the route that you want to take because there's too much road or whatever. But you could head off knowing that if you strayed then the unit would keep recalculating how to get to the next GR. To choose your own route you would need to create a track in some software package and import it to the device. But now you've told the device you want to follow this path and haven't given it any waypoints to recalculate to so it's up to you to follow it.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:17 am

Is it the touch 35 you have ?
No, I mean ipod ... it's the nearest think I have to a phone :wink:

I'm getting a clearer picture now after reading what Bob said but I'm still slightly confused ... does the Wahoo not show you where you are once you leave the route in the same way a Garmin does?
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Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:25 am

I only imported routes not someone's GPS track I made the route myself but if i left it or made a wrong turn it would show where I am and flash warnings that I'm off course but it won't recalculate or adjust you have to follow that exact route so until i go over the section that I've gone off from it won't progress onwards just keeps pointing out I'm off course

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whitestone
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by whitestone » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:37 am

A bit of search shows that the Elemnt has Turn By Turn navigation so will tell you to turn left at a junction but doesn't recalculate if you go off-route. I don't know if it's still the case but one review highlighted a problem whereby if you went off-route and zoomed out to find where you were then the Elemnt's map displayed less and less data in order to keep the screen uncluttered. If you zoomed out too far, only a couple of zoom levels, then no roads were displayed at all!
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:44 am

A bit of search shows that the Elemnt has Turn By Turn navigation so will tell you to turn left at a junction but doesn't recalculate if you go off-route. I don't know if it's still the case but one review highlighted a problem whereby if you went off-route and zoomed out to find where you were then the Elemnt's map displayed less and less data in order to keep the screen uncluttered. If you zoomed out too far, only a couple of zoom levels, then no roads were displayed at all!
and people moan about garmins :wink:
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Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:47 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
A bit of search shows that the Elemnt has Turn By Turn navigation so will tell you to turn left at a junction but doesn't recalculate if you go off-route. I don't know if it's still the case but one review highlighted a problem whereby if you went off-route and zoomed out to find where you were then the Elemnt's map displayed less and less data in order to keep the screen uncluttered. If you zoomed out too far, only a couple of zoom levels, then no roads were displayed at all!
and people moan about garmins :wink:
I didn't get the wahoo for the mapping tho I was at the point of smashing my Garmin to pieces for getting elevation and even distance wrong rebooting during rides and so on.

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whitestone
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by whitestone » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:59 am

This was the review/comparison - https://mashing53.cyclyc.com/wahoo-navi ... or-failed/

Being charitable ( :shock: ) most consumer device GPS problems are down to user expectations, they aren't a panacea to all navigational problems, you still have to be alert and have some nous.

Mitomaniac - the 820 seems to have been a poor unit all round, certainly not the upgrade to the 800 & 810 that it should have been. Historically Garmins have been inconsistent in recording accumulated elevation - I'd go out for a ride with my wife, she has a Garmin 800, I'd a 510 and while the distance would be within half a kilometre or so the elevation gain might be 30% difference. Newer models are better and we'll now have a difference of less than 1%. Rain can also affect the Edge series' recording of elevation as the tiny hole used by the barometer gets blocked. The values get corrected when you upload to Garmin Connect or Strava and the systems align your route with known elevation data.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:00 pm

I was at the point of smashing my Garmin to pieces for getting elevation and even distance wrong rebooting during rides and so on.
Which model? I use an old Dakota and it's never let me down. You read a lot of stuff about the Edge series crashing, freezing, etc but the 'outdoor' rather than 'cycling' Garmins do seem much better. Obviously, it depends whether you want the whistles and bells of something designed for the cyclist though?
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Mitomaniac
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Mitomaniac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:06 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
I was at the point of smashing my Garmin to pieces for getting elevation and even distance wrong rebooting during rides and so on.
Which model? I use an old Dakota and it's never let me down. You read a lot of stuff about the Edge series crashing, freezing, etc but the 'outdoor' rather than 'cycling' Garmins do seem much better. Obviously, it depends whether you want the whistles and bells of something designed for the cyclist though?
It was the 820 I had..

I'm happy to use a Oregon or etrex alongside my wahoo as for cycling it's brilliant no crashes freezing or let downs

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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Chew » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:12 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I have all of Wales / N England 1:25K OS mapping on my touch. If I need to detour from the line on a screen, I simply use that to devise a route on the fly.
Which App is that?

(sorry for the hijack)

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:19 pm

Bought from itunes Chew. Just looked and my mistake, it's 1:50k. Just called something like ' 1:50 OS mapping'. I recall that the country is broken down into sections and each one was about £12 ... Wales being one section.
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johnnystorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by johnnystorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:52 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Bought from itunes Chew. Just looked and my mistake, it's 1:50k. Just called something like ' 1:50 OS mapping'. I recall that the country is broken down into sections and each one was about £12 ... Wales being one section.
It's been a while since i had an iOS device but I used this: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/uk-map/id365745482?mt=8
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johnnystorm
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by johnnystorm » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:56 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
A bit of search shows that the Elemnt has Turn By Turn navigation so will tell you to turn left at a junction but doesn't recalculate if you go off-route. I don't know if it's still the case but one review highlighted a problem whereby if you went off-route and zoomed out to find where you were then the Elemnt's map displayed less and less data in order to keep the screen uncluttered. If you zoomed out too far, only a couple of zoom levels, then no roads were displayed at all!
and people moan about garmins :wink:

It's not that bad.... :lol:

It won't recalc a new route for you on the fly but if you detour then it will go back to normal when you rejoin it. It doesn't mind that you've missed some out. It's not as detailed as colour OS/OSM based map but like yourself I find it much easier to whip out my phone than faff with a small screen on the bars.
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Re: Yet another GPS question

Post by mechanicaldope » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:31 pm

you have to start from the exact start point of the route before it will start following with some off road routes
Pretty sure this must be due to the gpx file type you have loaded as whatever it is I have used will just pickup from where you rejoin. I have had no problems with mine off road.

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