Map reading.....info

[JohnClimber]

While I've been laying in my sick bed. Thanks Norovirus, not please bugger off before next weekends Winter Event.

I saw quiet a few posts about people needing Mountain Rescue because their smart phones had failed, not much of a surprise to most of us to hear that batteries died through high GPS use in cold weather, forcing them to call (from other phones I guess) mountain rescue to guide them off the dark hillsides.

Now I guess that most of us can spend hours looking over OS maps spread out on the living room floor or dining room table, in fact 25% of the adventure happens at home to a lot of us.

But looking on FB groups people are asking "which map software for my phone?", "what on line route planning?".......

What has happened to the art of map reading, let alone follow a compass bearing?

Come on admit it on here if you think that you need help, we won't point or call names.

Please tell us old gits what we can do to help you out and not cause future problems for the mountain rescue teams?

[whitestone]

Learning to read a map was part of Geography course work at school, map and compass work was taught in the Scouts (I think, might have been school as well). So, another old git wondering about the loss of a useful skill.

[middleagedmadness]

Still is at my lads school Bob ,just before Christmas he asked if he could take my o/s map of the local area into school,but the school seems a little different to other inner city schools in the area ,d of e is pushed for all kids who have a good behaviour record not just the high achievers and there is a kitty to help out with kids who's parents struggle financially ,Ofsted ratings seem to be second to the kids well being which in turn gives the school a good rating,not sure if this is down to be part funded by the Catholic church though

[voodoo_simon]

My micro navigation could be improved/practiced. It’s been a few years since I’ve practiced pacing out, say 50-100m to navigate (think I used to have 80 double steps to do 100m?!) etc. Something that I should spend some time doing so.

Have done the WRT and other such events/days out without a GPS unit or phone before, so quite happy to navigate without electrics

To be fair, navigation isn’t a difficult thing to learn, it’s just keeping the art of it up

[gairym]

I can read a map and use a compass but.....I don't take either of those sensible items on trips these days and so could easily fall foul of being overly reliant on gadgetry if things suddenly went spectacularly sideways.

I usually take backup power and multiple copies of downloaded maps and gpx tracks etc... but ultimately I'm relying on the phone that I keep in my shorts pocket (which could eject itself any second) and the Garmin on my bars (which could be landed on in a fall) to keep me safe.

Might be an area of self-preservation that needs some attention.

Thanks for bringing it up.....

[fatbikephil]

Most of my trips are on established paths so I generally go GPS only. This is on the basis is that I'm not going to wander off path so the worst that will happen is to back track which is a PIA but not life threatening. If I am doing something up high where nav errors could end you up in all sorts of bother I take map and compass back up however I have my doubts as to the ability to get the map out after your GPS has croaked and then work out where you are..... (I'm thinking of the Cairngorm Plateau here where the majority of nav failure epics seem to occur....)

[whitestone]

Micro-nav, hmm. When we lived in N Wales I'd do micro-nav sessions with one of the centres: a sheet with distance and bearing then from the start point you were off. Only problem was that it was at night, the kids had whatever poor handtorches they'd brought from home and the points you were aiming for were spots of red paint on a stone amongst the heather

A good book/pamphlet is Navigation for Mountain Runners by Martin Bagness, I think it's just an e-book now - the irony

I love maps - we've probably got a couple of hundred in the house - and will invariably get some if we are going to a new area.

Techniques/tips?
> Always have a rough idea of where you are, even if it's just to the nearest km, then if you do become "temporarily mislocated" your search area is much reduced.
> If you are heading from A to B have a list of features that you can "tick off" - deciduous wood on left; stream crossing; and so on. Again it gives you confidence in where you are.

The above two points are "rough" navigation and have a fairly large area of uncertainty about them. As you approach your destination you use increasingly "fine" navigation, typical techniques are "handrails" - linear features that can guide you; "aiming off" where you deliberately aim to one side of a feature on a handrail so you know that once you hit it you turn left/right, so to get to a stream junction you'd aim upstream and when you got to the stream you would know to head downstream to get to the junction. "Aspect of slope" - take a bearing directly down the slope. I've used this one in the Lakes when I got lost on Fairfield, turned out I was on the opposite side of the ridge that I thought I was on!

Ooh! Lots more

[Bearbonesnorm]

Very good post John. I was told that it usually takes humans 2 - 3 generations before we lose a skill, the exception being map reading / navigation which has largely gone in the course of a single generation.

I really can't imagine not being able to read a map and build a picture in my mind of what I'm going to see ... adds to the excitement and anticipation. I think that if folk practiced it more, there's be less people in the interweb asking for overnight spot recommendations. I know it's not always true but you can usually locate good potential spots from 5 minutes spent with a map.

[Adventurer]

Fastest way to map read is do do some orienteering with a local club.

I used to think I was fit until I started doing orienteering. I was 30 and it took me a year to get to the same fitness as guys in their 50s.

They use to say it’s like reading the times, doing the crossword whilst running for the train.

[lune ranger]

I have to admit to using a gps and following a crumb trail these days. Let's face it the convenience is amazing. I always found navigating with a map on the bike a pita compared to being on foot.
I do however love maps and have a whole stack at home.
Many are cut down, covers removed, stuck together, home laminated etc.
Can't even begin to think of how many hours I've spent ogling maps, highlighter in one hand, roamer or measuring wheel in the other. Or when I was a kid, using string to work out distances.
I still always carry a paper map with me as back up even if it stays packed a lot of the time.
Do you remember the Polaris events where the navigation was part of the event itself?

[benp1]

I have to admit to being pleased at having my phone with me yesterday with the OS maps app. Took the kids up Moelwyn Bach in Snowdonia. I know I'm 69 paces to 100m but with a dog and two kids (7&6) to keep an eye on its much easier using a GPS than a paper map. I'd actually forgotten my garmin Oregon which I'd usually use, had a paper map and compass to use, but a couple of sections coming through a disused quarry meant the app was quicker, nicer and less faff

If I was on my own with some time I'd like to brush up micronav stuff, but out and about with the kids with darkness looming meant I just wanted to get down. In the end we needed hand and head torches for the last section, but it was a wide double track at that point. I was hoping to get up Moelwyn Mawr too but didn't think we had enough time, which in the end we didn't. I think we spent too much time messing about in the way up.

Great day out though. And cracking views!

[ScotRoutes]

Don't conflate map reading skills with the medium upon which the map is displayed. It over-simplifies the situation and doesn't advance the argument.

I rarely take a paper map anywhere these days.

[Asposium]

Don't conflate map reading skills with the medium upon which the map is displayed. It over-simplifies the situation and doesn't advance the argument.

I rarely take a paper map anywhere these days.

Likewise
I use a Garmin Montana 610 GPS as my main GPS. (Batteries are user replaceable, and generally carry a backup GPS)
The Montana has an OS map, albeit displayed on a screen.
In the years I have been using the Montana it has never let me down.
Whereas a map and compass in the dark and pissing rain, hmm. Those times were not fun.

One still needs to be able to read a map and navigate; all the Garmin does is show the map and one’s location on that map.

The Garmin does not affect my ability to visualise the contours and relate that information to the ground.

The anti GPS arguments go round on the internet periodically; same old points. There are pros and cons to both.

[lune ranger]

I still find getting the bigger picture easier with paper due to the massive 'screen size' Changing plan/route is so much simpler when you can see it all in one place. Scrolling on a screen is they bit more fiddly.
On route and following a track - gps for me. Off route or free styling I usually use a paper map in combo with the gps.

[summittoppler]

I can read a map fine but tbh I ain't got a clue how to use a GPS!
I've got a Garmin e-trex 30 which is sitting idle at home :(

[JohnClimber]

I suppose what I am asking is.....
Do 20 somethings know how to read a map?

I love using my GPS over paper maps when out but the planning is always done on paper maps or/and memory map

[whitestone]

The last few posts have highlighted the pros and cons of both paper and electronic maps.

Planning is much easier (the big picture) on a paper map, plotting is easiest on a desktop map program, following a route easiest on a GPS unit. That doesn't mean to say that you can't use the others for each step in the process, apart from taking a desktop out on the bike

Do 20 somethings know how to read a map? It's probably a mixed picture in the same way it was fifty years ago but the proportion of map readers might be lower.

[Scud]

I think it is not just reading a map that needs to be learnt, but also using a GPS properly, i think a large part of the problem is not just lack of map skills, but lack of GPS and mountain craft skills. People think you can travel into the mountains now for the "insta-photos" with a warm jacket, rucksack and your GPS/ phone trail to follow.

Using a good GPS properly is a skill and using a map to support what your GPS is telling you, then when you do become lost, or something goes wrong, having the skills to get yourself out of it instead of relying on Mountain Rescue.

I was lucky i went to a school where we had Army cadets and a week away with the cadets and a week away each year in the Cairngorms doing "adventure training" along with numerous weekends, and it gave a lad from Portsmouth experience of real mountains and a love of them which then served me well in the Army as an artillery officer where my map-reading co-ordinates had to be pretty good. But i find that they are skills that need to be honed and practiced and i get rusty.

But you can't entirely blame youngsters these days, very few get to learn these skills at school or get taught them, it doesn't stop them wanting to be outside and out in the hills though.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Colin's right. it's not a matter of whether you use paper, gps or a phone - they all display the same maps but in a different form, it's just that the electronic devices also display (or can) a defined route which in theory means you shouldn't be getting yourself lost. Sound theory but as we know, often crap in practice.

If you trace the chain of dominos that leads to someone being lost on the hills despite carrying a gps, phone or even a paper map, I can't help but think the partial fault could lie with the media ... seemingly hell bent on 'pushing' folk onto the hills so they can share their experience via the same media. However, the far less sexy messages that should accompany this are largely left out. Who wants to expend the effort on learning how to navigate when their phone can transport them to insta stardom at the press of a button or two? Maybe the term instant gratification should now be viewed as insta gratification

[darbeze]

Map reading and being able to navigate with map and compass is an essential skill that we should keep polished and honed.

Whether that be electronic or paper is another discussion.

Personally, I use paper maps to plot my route with pencils and a highlighter of some description. Then I transpose that using OS maps (used to use bikehike) to create a gpx. I load that onto my Garmin Dakota 10 and use that to follow the breadcrumb trail.

However, I always take the paper maps with my route marked out and a physical compass as a backup and tool to double check if I run into doubt about where I am going. My wife is an avid walker and is also an skilled navigator (She has to be as Dartmoor is our playground). She runs navigation workshops amongst other things and insists that I carry paper maps and compass whenever I am out. I have to say that the "old school" combo has helped me out more than once!

Good subject to bring up John... Hope you get better soon.

Si

[summittoppler]

I know this is a tad different but how many of you when driving rely on a GPS/phobe to get to your destination? Remember the days when the passenger would have an atlas on their lap, and the arguments that would follow!

[Bearbonesnorm]

No gps or satnav in the car here Jeff. In last winters snow, I lost count of the people who got stuck locally because they blindly followed the gps rather than employing common sense and sticking to the main A roads ... "the satnav sent me this way" like it was the fault of the satnav and not a self-infliced home goal brought about by being a nob

I actually mentioned to someone the other day that the WRT would probably be much more popular if you removed the planning / navigation element and just handed out gpx files for people to follow ... maybe there should be two options?

[summittoppler]

BB events with no GPS?

[ScotRoutes]

I almost always set Google Maps into driving mode, even if it's a route with which I am familiar. It's saved me (and my customers/passengers) hours in avoided delays due to traffic volumes, accidents and weather incidents.

[Bearbonesnorm]

BB events with no GPS?

200 might be fun