How Much !

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Lazarus
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Re: How Much !

Post by Lazarus » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:24 pm

:lol:

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:48 pm

I was an "off-road biased scumbag" having done WRT, BB200, Cairngorms loop, and destroyed bikes and body, backpacking and racing off road all over Europe; yet I'm now drawn to these Roadie races.
Don't worry Jack, I'll always think of you as a scumbag :wink:

If we return to the OP, I don't think anyone is questioning the appeal of road based endurance events, nor are they questioning someones decision to ride one. Andy was simply asking why some seem so expensive ... maybe this.
In some way the level of entry fee also states a degree of commitment to turn up. I have done racing collective events where if i hadn't turned up with friends the organiser would have done it on his own. Underground free events are prone to weather watchers deciding not to bother last minute.
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In Reverse
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Re: How Much !

Post by In Reverse » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Yep, Si and Gil suffered from this ^^ with the Moors Hundred.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: How Much !

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:46 pm

Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....

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In Reverse
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Re: How Much !

Post by In Reverse » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:04 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....
When you do the snitching make sure you let them know about all the scummers racing the Highland Trail and Cairgorms Loop too. This sort of thing has to be stopped!

liamg
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Re: How Much !

Post by liamg » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:11 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....
Racing on public roads was banned for a long time in the UK, hence the popularity of time trials. Thankfully, we've moved beyond that.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: How Much !

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:12 pm

In Reverse wrote:
ScotRoutes wrote:Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....
When you do the snitching make sure you let them know about all the scummers racing the Highland Trail and Cairgorms Loop too. This sort of thing has to be stopped!

You'll get no disagreement from me.

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In Reverse
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Re: How Much !

Post by In Reverse » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:13 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
In Reverse wrote:
ScotRoutes wrote:Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....
When you do the snitching make sure you let them know about all the scummers racing the Highland Trail and Cairgorms Loop too. This sort of thing has to be stopped!

You'll get no disagreement from me.
:-bd

There's been far too many people enjoying the outdoors on bikes. It's high time these people were brought to task for breaking those non-existent laws!

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ScotRoutes
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Re: How Much !

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:20 pm

Much like having a fire, it's possible to enjoy"the outdoors" without racing on the public roads. In fact it's usually more enjoyable as you are outdoors for longer.

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In Reverse
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Re: How Much !

Post by In Reverse » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:25 pm

Absolutely - everybody should find enjoyment in things the same way that you do. :-bd There's no place in this world for people who like to push themselves mentally and physically. [-X Wouldn't surprise me if there were members of this very message board who prefer riding competitively to pootling about. Idiots I call them.

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htrider
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Re: How Much !

Post by htrider » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:30 pm

I know of a couple of local club road races which are as advertised full on racing with marshalls, support bikes etc. The cops were happy that they went ahead without road closures or any form of formal traffic management......

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Trail-rat
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Re: How Much !

Post by Trail-rat » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:49 pm

Rolling road closure in the form of trained and accredited motorcycle outriders is a standard proceedure for road racing these days.

Makes life for us Marshall's so much easier as they have the authority to stop cars we don't.

I still don't agree with riders doing multiple days of racing while putting them selves into sleep deprivation.

It's the last thing alot of the roads they intend to use need tbh. The gawking drivers not looking at the road makes them dangerous enough half the year.

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Moder-dye
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Re: How Much !

Post by Moder-dye » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:23 pm

liamg wrote:
ScotRoutes wrote:Racing. On the public roads.

Are there not laws against that sort of thing? If not then there certainly should be.

In fact, I wonder what Police Scotland might have to say about a couple of them....
Racing on public roads was banned for a long time in the UK, hence the popularity of time trials. Thankfully, we've moved beyond that.
Time trials are great! Granted I'm crap and have only done local club one's, but they're a great personal challenge and workout. I like watching the pro tour ones too :-bd

P.s. our club ones are free :cool:

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ZeroDarkBivi
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Re: How Much !

Post by ZeroDarkBivi » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:10 pm

Have to say I empathise with the anti-'road racing' lobby, especially ultra-long events that will inevitably lead to deep fatigue. Sure, everybody should have the freedom to decide for themselves what level of personal risk they accept, but it is selfish and unreasonable to impose that risk on other road users. I don't think anybody here would be happy if a cyclist was killed by a motorist who was driving knackered, so why is it any more acceptable the other way round? Even if it the rider who is more likely to be killed, the driver involved has to live with that mental trauma for the rest of their life.

It's not about fun police, it's about sharing the road, and considerate behaviour.

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Dave Barter
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Re: How Much !

Post by Dave Barter » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:33 pm

ZeroDarkBivi wrote:Have to say I empathise with the anti-'road racing' lobby, especially ultra-long events that will inevitably lead to deep fatigue. Sure, everybody should have the freedom to decide for themselves what level of personal risk they accept, but it is selfish and unreasonable to impose that risk on other road users. I don't think anybody here would be happy if a cyclist was killed by a motorist who was driving knackered, so why is it any more acceptable the other way round? Even if it the rider who is more likely to be killed, the driver involved has to live with that mental trauma for the rest of their life.

It's not about fun police, it's about sharing the road, and considerate behaviour.
Thing is I massively disagree. Its dead simple to not kill someone on the road. It gets harder the faster you go. You just play to the lobby who feel roads are for fast things. I hate that with a vengeance and believe my mate Jack should be able to use a highway no matter how tired he is. Others should drive anticipating him and other hazards.
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Richpips
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Re: How Much !

Post by Richpips » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:03 am

If you capture someones imagination they'll pay.

We entered a gravel "race" in Belgium, the entry cost was 25 Euros each, just because it was something different and a bit of fun. Total cost for the weekend maybe £300 with ferry diesel hotel etc.
Rode bikes, got very wet, drank a couple of beers and made some new friends.
Being part of a group of folk made the day. If the organisers made any money, well good for them.

How much for a 1 hour CX race these days?

Worlds 24 hour mtb just gone in Fort Bill was £190.


.

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Re: How Much !

Post by jameso » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:53 am

I'm very much with you on that point Dave.

Racing a bike at 15mph average speed on the road is just not a problem imo. Sleep dep, maybe. But that's just something people need to manage, like resisting the urge to do other daft or risky things that we see on the roads.

We can pay £25k or more to do the gumball rally, so why not pay £300 to do the TCR. Same basic idea, just less coke and champers on the TCR :grin: I think it' great that some people can make a living from running events and the added promotion that comes from it raises the profile of the events and the format. Fair enough that some will prefer a more underground event, others take inspiration from the scale, profile, volume of stories from riders past, etc.

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Trail-rat
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Re: How Much !

Post by Trail-rat » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:26 am

"hate that with a vengeance and believe my mate Jack should be able to use a highway no matter how tired he is. Others should drive anticipating him and other hazards."

It's not about pandering to fast things. It's about doing predictable things.

Something an over tired human does not do well.

No point being Dead right.... Sorry I meant right and dead.

Some of the roads planned for some of these routes is stupid.

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Re: How Much !

Post by Scud » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:43 am

Taking the TCR as an example,it is a massive undertaking for the team behind it, organising start and finish locations with four checkpoints along the way, whilst they have sponsors, the people that man those checkpoints are volunteers, and i think the amount charged is really good value, whereas are you going to enter an event of that magnitude for that price?

The route changes each year and the planning that takes, and the insurance implications are now doubt costly.

If people think the organisers of TCR are making a lot of money, they have to look at the community of people willing to volunteer there time for it, the fact that Anna had to Crowdfund the money to attend Mike's inquest in Australia and the fact the riders and dot-watchers that form that community were all willing to come through for her for the money to attend.

No doubt as time goes on and these ultra-racing events become more popular there will be those that seek to profit from it, but all i've met seem to do it for the love and the people.

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Re: How Much !

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:09 pm

Trail-rat wrote: Some of the roads planned for some of these routes is stupid.
Well, that's another problem. Lack of imagination means that the same roads are being used time and time again. I can completely understand the frustration of the locals on the likes of the NC500 route as they try to go about their normal daily business.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:53 pm

As insurance keeps getting brought up in this thread .... I'd guess that no endurance cycling event / ITT has insurance in place other than public liability (at most), which is no use to you should you have an accident and also pretty inexpensive to the organiser to buy*. I see the Pan-Celtic are asking that riders have their own insurance - It doesn't stipulate but I assume that's personal accident cover as third party obviously isn't a requirement by law for cycling on UK roads, although members of BC, CCT, etc will likely have it anyway.

After reading back through the entire thread, I'm wondering whether costs spiral depending how big a media circus the organiser hopes to attract ... portraying 'professionalism' in the hope of gaining sponsors, press coverage and general kudos doesn't come cheap and someone has to pay** :wink:

* put that to keep us on topic :wink:

** I'm not saying events are either cheap or expensive. We all view 'value' differently and most of us will have a figure in mind that we'd pay to enter something.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: How Much !

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:08 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:We all view 'value' differently and most of us will have a figure in mind that we'd pay to enter something.
I think it can also matter where the money is going. I rode the Etape Caledonia a couple of times. I think the entry fee was around £45. Macmillan Cancer had their name all over the website and marketing material so it seemed safe to assume that they were a major recipient of the entry fee (after marshalling, food, signage etc). Turns out it was being run at a profit by a large sports promoter and that Macmillan only got the benefit of a few free places to give to sponsored riders. A lot of folk stopped doing it after that came out (though it still sells out each year).

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Re: How Much !

Post by Justchris » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Bearbonesnorm wrote:We all view 'value' differently and most of us will have a figure in mind that we'd pay to enter something.
I think it can also matter where the money is going. I rode the Etape Caledonia a couple of times. I think the entry fee was around £45. Macmillan Cancer had their name all over the website and marketing material so it seemed safe to assume that they were a major recipient of the entry fee (after marshalling, food, signage etc). Turns out it was being run at a profit by a large sports promoter and that Macmillan only got the benefit of a few free places to give to sponsored riders. A lot of folk stopped doing it after that came out (though it still sells out each year).
It's more than £45 now. I have always wanted to do it as an 'event', raise a little money, and the closed roads would be a bonus. But I refuse to pay the entry fee of £200 as I miss out as it sells out so fast, usually in 15 mins. And there is a podium, so it's a race...

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:38 pm

And there is a podium, so it's a race...
Maybe they just want to reach something from a high shelf?
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Re: How Much !

Post by Landslide » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:32 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Maybe they just want to reach something from a high shelf?
I bet you can't reach those prime cuts of beef...

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