How Much !

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Chicken Legs
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How Much !

Post by Chicken Legs » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:46 pm

I have been spudding around looking at different events and can't help thinking that pricing seems to be getting out of hand !

A couple of examples :

The Transalba - £235
Trans Atlantic Way - £380

Could it be that I am getting so old that everything seems expensive or not appreciating the cost of organising this type of event ?
"What is man but the sum of his memories"

pistonbroke
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Re: How Much !

Post by pistonbroke » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:01 pm

Trans Spain C2C £nowt Ryanair Stanstead-Reus 9th May 2019 £27.73. You know it makes sense.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:08 pm

As someone with some event experience, I do sometimes wonder why things cost as much as they do ... then I remember that people are trying to make money rather than doing it because they simply love everybody :wink:

Costs can quickly add up but in the case of ITT type events, they're fairly limited unless of course the organisers feel the need for stickered up cars / vans, big banners, a posh website and those wavy flag things I forget the proper name of.

Seems that the 'roadpacking' market are much more tolerant of higher prices than the off-road biased scumbags ... probably because they've had more practice at having their pants pulled down. Ultimately, the market will decide whether something is priced right and sometimes the product simply finds a new market if the intended one refuses to bite.

Ooh and before anyone says, "compared to a sportive / triathlon / tiddlywinks all-nighter it's cheap" ... we're not talking about those are we :wink:
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Rasta
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Re: How Much !

Post by Rasta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:16 pm

I heard that your last event was a bit of a triathlon! :lol:

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Chicken Legs
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Re: How Much !

Post by Chicken Legs » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:25 pm

Duncan your clearly going to attract the "off-road biased scumbags" and your Spain C2C is very tempting but I can't make that week.

Off-road biased scumbags are so much more friendly as well :-bd
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slarge
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Re: How Much !

Post by slarge » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:35 pm

Then the Pan Celtic race is £380 including 2 ferries and spot hire, plus event centre etc....

That I can understand, but yes, many other events are in many cases a way of fleecing the poor punter. You can always do the event a little while afterwards.....

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:44 pm

Then the Pan Celtic race is £380 including 2 ferries and spot hire, plus event centre etc....
The £380 includes the ferry crossings does it Steve?
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psling
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Re: How Much !

Post by psling » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Wales 360 2019 @ £1310.00
Oh, that's the 'Early Bird' entry (available 'til 7/12/2018), 'Standard Entry' cost not posted yet :shock:
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JohnClimber
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Re: How Much !

Post by JohnClimber » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:03 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:......... off-road biased scumbags ...
That's the nicest thing you've called us all year :lol:

jameso
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Re: How Much !

Post by jameso » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:59 pm

the 'roadpacking' market
Odd isn't it - drop bars mean you're inclined to be paying a fair bit to race the bigger events, for MTB it's largely free still. Exceptions, French Divide, a few Italian events run by the guy who does Tuscany Trail, but not many?
Its a supply-demand thing for road events, seems to be more people wanting to do them. TBH I get the supply-demand bit, a popular event could use pricing simply as a way to keep numbers under control.

slarge
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Re: How Much !

Post by slarge » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:07 pm

Blimmin hope so Stu, I'm sure I read that they were.

A walk onferry isquite cheap though

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:22 pm

Cost us £53 return from Liverpool to the IOM this year Steve.
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Karl
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Re: How Much !

Post by Karl » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:51 pm

pistonbroke wrote:Trans Spain C2C £nowt Ryanair Stanstead-Reus 9th May 2019 £27.73. You know it makes sense.

Is there a website for this?

pistonbroke
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Re: How Much !

Post by pistonbroke » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:23 pm

http://phased.co.uk/musings-on-a-spanis ... -to-coast/
This should give you a flavour of the ride, it's just under 1,000km from Tarragona to Bilbao, cheap flights are available to Reus/Tarragona or Barcelona and return from Bilbao, we transfer bike boxes from start to finish and it's split into 9 legs of about 100-120km. Bivvy most nights but food in cafes and cheap restaurants, smattering of campsites for showers and in the event of bad weather. Next year's trip runs from the 10th to 19th of May, all welcome.

boxelder
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Re: How Much !

Post by boxelder » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:09 am

I guess if people don't want to pay, they can DIY. If they feel they can't DIY and need some support, someone has to invest time etc, so only fair they might look to be compensated. If support is offered, it may cross the line into organisation, which then requires a lot of further risk assessment, insurance, permissions, negotiations, staffing. I'm sure there are events that charge less, but wouldn't meet the 'it went wrong, so I'm going to sue someone' test.
Not everyone has the skillset, time or confidence to DIY and will therefore be happy to pay someone to make it possible just to turn up and pedal. Many humans also just enjoy doing stuff with lots of other folk and the more you pay, the better it must be - seen the price of 'Mud runs' :shock:

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Trail-rat
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Re: How Much !

Post by Trail-rat » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:17 am

These look just like a fixed route tour via a different name.

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Re: How Much !

Post by Blackhound » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:23 am

And £199 for a 300km sportive spread over two days including camping https://road.cc/content/news/252466-reg ... revolution

Two days of busy roads? Not for me.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:39 am

If support is offered, it may cross the line into organisation, which then requires a lot of further risk assessment, insurance, permissions, negotiations, staffing.
Yes very true but the events being discussed don't really ... much more of an ITT / Audax style format.
which then requires a lot of further risk assessment, insurance, permissions, negotiations, staffing. I'm sure there are events that charge less, but wouldn't meet the 'it went wrong, so I'm going to sue someone' test.
Events that possess these things aren't automatically 'fire-proof' should something going wrong.
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whitestone
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Re: How Much !

Post by whitestone » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:01 am

Our cycling club organises a sportive in the Dales. Costs around £30 per entry (depends on route and how soon the person enters), that includes hiring the event centre (cattle market!), the various food stops, St John's ambulance cover, Raynet cover, insurance, advertising flyers, etc. Staffing is done by club members and the local council provide some admin/logistical support. No great profit, depending on numbers the event could even make a loss.

So that's for a single day event, would/should a week long event with similar support cost £210?
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: How Much !

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:19 am

So that's for a single day event, would/should a week long event with similar support cost £210?
Much of that is already in place and paid for whether an event is one day or a fortnight. Things like ITT don't have St Johns in place so that's one expense you can remove, as are food stops ... doesn't really leave much else does it? :wink:
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whitestone
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Re: How Much !

Post by whitestone » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:32 am

That's true Stu, I was meaning for a supported road event rather than an ITT. I suspect we'd have trouble hiring the cattle market as event HQ for an entire week!

I don't think the costs of a multi-day event rise proportionately - day rates tend not to translate directly to weekly rates so to hire somewhere for one day might be £500 but only £1500 for the week to use some completely made up figures. It's the same if you hire tools/machinery from HSS or similar.
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sean_iow
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Re: How Much !

Post by sean_iow » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:44 am

Do the 'roadpacking' events pay the staff? I get the impression that some are run as commercial events rather than just for the love of the sport?

If a club is running an event and any profit goes back into club funds then it's easier to get volunteers to help out. If it's a commercial event then it's not going to be as easy to get people to give up a weeks holiday to help out on a longer event. Doesn't the TCR offer a place on the following years event if you marshall as an incentive to get helpers? I also think the same system is used on some non-cyling events to get the required marshalls. I think one of my local running events uses this system, if you marshall one year you get free entry the next. Once you have to start paying people, even of it's just expenses, the costs quickly mount up so you need to charge more.

Also, the road events have more scope for organisers to spend money with manned checkpoints, chase cars, feed stations etc. If people are prepared to pay then I guess the events will continue. I find people from a 'road' background are often more used to spending money anyway so perhaps they are easier to get to pay for events. When I've mentioned to some of my roadie mates that I made most of the kit I use in bike-packing races they often reply "why? can't you buy it anywhere?" which is somewhat missing the point :roll:
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PaulB2
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Re: How Much !

Post by PaulB2 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:06 am

The post 2012-era, 'cycling is the new golf' set need something to spend their money on - they've done sportives to death, tried carbon, tried titanium, tried aero, maybe even tried a triathlon, so now they're being sold a different niche of bike to take on somewhat santitised adventures. It's all good, it's just a more recent take on the equivalent of the guided tours through the alps that my local shop runs every year.

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numplumz
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Re: How Much !

Post by numplumz » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:56 pm

A bit like poking a stick into a hornets nest but here goes. :geek:

Yes I agree the amount you pay is crazy, more so for me now as I have no income for the foreseeable future.
Isn't what you get from anything in life more than its monetary value.

I was an "off-road biased scumbag" having done WRT, BB200, Cairngorms loop, and destroyed bikes and body, backpacking and racing off road all over Europe; yet I'm now drawn to these Roadie races.

And is that the difference, the word RACE. Some of us are just competitive beasts, even though we are never going to bother any leader-boards we are pushed by the competitive element. Organisers have to supply some form of tracking, maybe its just one giant act of willy waving.

I've bikepacked/toured across Europe done some big Audaxes, yet nothing at present fulfills me more than these road bikepacking events, and I destroy less stuff :grin: They inspire me to new highs in some amazing places I would never have thought of going to before. the people involved are like a wonderful family, it's so much more than just a bike ride. The before and after socialising experience is great, I have met and befriended some fantastic people, I guess this also follows at the checkpoints; These are parts of the hidden costs, over just turn up and ride events.

It is a great thing to see people doing these events finding out their limits are more mental than physical, they are pushed to achieve things they never thought possible, revealing so much about their true potential. Anything that inspires riders to travel by bike rather than ride round in circles is a good thing in my book. it also encourages riders to search for more challenges including moving to off road stuff.

So you could organise one cheaper, then go do it, and believe me if you did you would fill it overnight; I have organised cheap sportives on and off road, given all profits to charity and would love to do so myself; but in the UK, your on shaky ground. Would you be happy with the ever looming spectre of liability, I decided i wasn't. Any of these organisers is one step away from a ground breaking law suit and being haunted by someones unfortunate death.

There is room for everything, we all have our reasons to choose what appeals, comparing touring to sportives to races is irrelevant. In some way the level of entry fee also states a degree of commitment to turn up. I have done racing collective events where if i hadn't turned up with friends the organiser would have done it on his own. Underground free events are prone to weather watchers deciding not to bother last minute.

we have enough people on our backs without attacking each other. :-bd
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In Reverse
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Re: How Much !

Post by In Reverse » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:14 pm

Get him lads!

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