Pro roadies do bikepacking

[fatbikephil]

Although it looks like they stayed in hotels....
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... ium-397280
Of vague concern is the note further down about EF drapac doing an 'alternative calendar' inc the trans continental.... pros doing ITT's???

[Richard G]

Not convinced they could cope without their team chefs and masseurs.

[jameso]

On the basis that the bigger your engine the faster you go at your steady pace, it would be interesting to see what someone with that kind of fitness could do with a bit of BP race experience and some endurance-specific training. Not sure how switchable it is, but those guys have base fitness way beyond most (all?) BP racers.

[lune ranger]

Can you imagine a 50kg climber in those streams at the weekend with 20kg of bike and gear above his head? Priceless

[Richard G]

Can you imagine a 50kg climber in those streams at the weekend with 20kg of bike and gear above his head? Priceless

Ahem...

(Admittedly I'm not at my race weight at the moment, but still. lol)

[sean_iow]

On the basis that the bigger your engine the faster you go at your steady pace, it would be interesting to see what someone with that kind of fitness could do with a bit of BP race experience and some endurance-specific training. Not sure how switchable it is, but those guys have base fitness way beyond most (all?) BP racers.

Is 5 hours a day in the alps endurance? They might not be able to switch disciplines without training again from scratch? But it would be interesting to find out. I don't know if much research has been done into cycling over ultra distances but I do have several books about running ultras and they say that the further the distance the less it is about running. It becomes more about the mind than the body.

The biggest advantage they have over most/all BP racers is they don't also have jobs so can train full time. It's been said that one of the reasons lottery funding has helped our Olympic athletes so much is they could give up work. If 40 hours a week is used up at work it eats into the training and just as importantly the recovery time.

[Richard G]

For what it's worth, I haven't trained longer than 2 hours in a session all year. It's not so much about quantity as quality.

I'd wager most pro roadies spend a lot more time training at VO2 max / aerobic though, which is far less useful to these sort of events.

[lune ranger]

Can you imagine a 50kg climber in those streams at the weekend with 20kg of bike and gear above his head? Priceless

Ahem...

(Admittedly I'm not at my race weight at the moment, but still. lol)

I'll get my coat...

[jameso]

For what it's worth, I haven't trained longer than 2 hours in a session all year. It's not so much about quantity as quality.

I'd wager most pro roadies spend a lot more time training at VO2 max / aerobic though, which is far less useful to these sort of events.

Your first point is it. But the vo2 point, not sure how much time % wise they train there, even so it misses why these guys could turn a hand to long distance and be very fast - if you train at the level they do, imagine the pace you'd be at when you sit at Z2 all day. You just need to be able to stay comfortable and be efficient all day.

So you'd need a load more skills and familiarity with longer hours on the bike, but the base and ability to hold a high pace is there and that's key.

Fwiw any distance training I've done has been around top end fitness. Big mile weeks at mainly lower pace were just about building a base that allowed me to handle continued time on the bike plus the couple of fast 2hr rides and max effort turbo session a week that were needed to get my short distance pace up. When your top end output is elevated, your cruise pace goes up also, so from what I've read, training your top end is important for endurance riding where you'll never use that top end. IANA sport scientist tho :) Greg..?

[ZeroDarkBivi]

“The biggest advantage they have over most/all BP racers is they don't also have jobs so can train full time.“

To some extent, but the real differences are genetics; physiology and psychology. Many of the big name racers are already living cycling lifestyles. I expect this is not going to see pros doing the TD, but perhaps targeting events that last a day or two, so they can recover effectively before the next race. ITTs in Wales, that get no international media headlines? I doubt it!

My initial reaction to this was a bit sceptical; do we want these ‘win at all cost’ substance abusers influencing our hobby? Truth is, other than maybe selling some more Rafa shirts to the gullible, I don’t anticipate much impact, unless you are already a racer with podium potential.

When the UCI tries to get involved I might start to get concerned!

[Bearlegged]

When the UCI tries to get involved I might start to get concerned!

Can you imagine the ruleset for BAM???!!!

[psling]

I know nothing about training regimes at that level but some of the figures I find interesting.

2018 TdF = 3349km in 21 days, ave. speed approx 40kph
2018 TC = 3406km won in (just under) 9 days

Now, the TdF riders spend a lot less time in the saddle per day at much higher speeds, mostly in a peleton of riders and with full physio and nutritional support although total time spent in the saddle for the full distance is considerably less. IMO, it would seem to be a big step up for a tour rider to compete in an ultra ITT.

[Scud]

@jameso

I briefly met Conor Dunne and Larry Warbasse on Torino-Nice, they were cycling opposite direction on their #nogotour after having lost their jobs at Aqua Blue team, they picked up some cheap bikepacking gear from Decathlon and went for it, and they seemed to have had a whale of a time.

The Rouleur coverage was here:

https://rouleur.cc/editorial/larry-cono ... h-a-tonne/

They also did a load of audio for Cycling Podcast (although it was one of the paid episodes) and said it was some of the best days they'd had on bike and they even give TNR a mention

https://thecyclingpodcast.com/project/nogotour

[Taylor]

Heard on a podcast this week that education first drapac are going to start entering races like dirty kanza.

[Richard G]

When your top end output is elevated, your cruise pace goes up also, so from what I've read, training your top end is important for endurance riding where you'll never use that top end. IANA sport scientist tho :) Greg..?

That doesn't really gel with what I've heard from coaches. Base is important to allow you to build upon (adding short power outputs for crits / sprints etc), but adding that high end output doesn't really give you anything in terms of additional endurance. Though we all need a little burst power occasionally to get up short climbs in the real world.

They might be wrong of course. But it seems like TrainerRoad uses a similar basis for their plans, so maybe not? (If you look at their century plans they have very little high end output in them, even at "speciality" level).

[Scud]

I was always told the biggest mistake with recreational cyclists was too much "grey" riding, so riding around at the same effort week in, week out, usually in zones 2-4 in each ride.

They don't ride slow enough to stay in Zone 2, so don't get the benefit of the body building stamina and fat adaption. They then do not then do not push hard enough in Zones 4 and anaerobically in Zone 5.

Essentially if you do nothing but ride long distances at a slowish speed, then you'll remain good at just that, i did it commuting 9000 miles to work by bike, i was great at that, but lost top end speed completely.

You need to train your top-end too, otherwise even if you target long distances events mostly, you will get no faster, you won't climb much faster and you'll tyre easily when you do have to go into the red on a climb, a headwind or trying to push yourself harder.

[benp1]

This is what I'm finding with my commute

it's a 21 mile round trip and I do it around 4 times a week on average I'd say (over the course of the year)

It's regular enough that my legs don't get any rest (will do other rides around it), but I don't 'train' using it. My base fitness is OK but only thanks to my commuting. I need to work out a way to change this, but at the same time I don't really want to stop cycle commuting (i.e. take more rest days)

[Matt]

I did the Garmin ride a few weeks ago just before the Tour of Britain went out. I rode with 3 pros (I say rode with, I desperately hung on at threshold while they chatted politely)

One thing that sort of blew my mind was not the pace (they were going easy but it was still quick) but the fact the pace just didn't change much up hills. They just went up them like they weren't there.

And for a laugh just compare the av. heart rates

https://www.strava.com/activities/1809845281

https://www.strava.com/activities/1809538231

I still beat him though

[giryan]

Something I've been trying on my ~30 mile round trip commute is doing the trip to work as gently as possible, not actually managing to only be in Z2, but I suspect I could if I bypassed the two larger hills, and then on the return journey actually try to attack it.
So get a bit over an hour of riding in in the morning, not be exhausted at work for the day, and then work hard for nearer 50-55 minutes on the return leg.
I'm not sure it's making huge differences, but it's quite fun. :)

[touch]

I know nothing about training regimes at that level but some of the figures I find interesting.

2018 TdF = 3349km in 21 days, ave. speed approx 40kph
2018 TC = 3406km won in (just under) 9 days

Now, the TdF riders spend a lot less time in the saddle per day at much higher speeds, mostly in a peleton of riders and with full physio and nutritional support although total time spent in the saddle for the full distance is considerably less. IMO, it would seem to be a big step up for a tour rider to compete in an ultra ITT.

I'm looking at public strava data here, so it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt:
Chris Froome training for the TdF seems to be doing around 500-600 miles per week.
James Hayden training for the TC seems to do around 200-300 miles per week.
I know their training will be structured very differently but when you consider that a pro will be doing 2-3 times more training mileage I dont think it would be that much of a stretch for one to do well in a long-distance endurance race.

[Richard G]

You need to train your top-end too, otherwise even if you target long distances events mostly, you will get no faster, you won't climb much faster and you'll tyre easily when you do have to go into the red on a climb, a headwind or trying to push yourself harder.

I was thinking of this whilst (ironically) I was having a massage...

I think this might come down to a difference in terminology. I think for a lot of people here, "threshold" would be top end, but for me I only think of VO2 Max / Anaerobic as top end.

It's definitely true that more time spent at threshold will help how well you deal with time spent at sweet spot / tempo. Not so much for VO2 max / anaerobic (in fact, adaptations here can have negative effects on endurance training).

Edit - What you call grey miles, I understand as "junk miles". Basically worthless in terms of adaptation once you've got some sort of reasonable base (which most of us will have).

[jameso]

I know nothing about training regimes at that level but some of the figures I find interesting.

2018 TdF = 3349km in 21 days, ave. speed approx 40kph
2018 TC = 3406km won in (just under) 9 days

Now, the TdF riders spend a lot less time in the saddle per day at much higher speeds, mostly in a peleton of riders and with full physio and nutritional support although total time spent in the saddle for the full distance is considerably less. IMO, it would seem to be a big step up for a tour rider to compete in an ultra ITT.

2017 and 2018 TC - won by the current 25 mile TT UK champ, ie a high short-period output equals a higher endurance pace. Then it's just a Q of ability to hack it for enough days back to back. I don't think it'd take any bigger step up for a Pro than for ex any of us doing the TD or TCR in a good time from a background of a few events. Not easy but far from unrealistic, motivation is the main thing imo.

[pistonbroke]

Nothing new about this. 20 years ago I was organising 5 hour Trailquest events in mid Wales, I invited several of the Pro and semi Pro mountainbike racing teams to try a round of the National series in Machynlleth. Team Raleigh, Peugeot and a few others sent riders and one of the magazines covered it as a Brain vs Brawn event. We even got the current National Cyclocross Champion to take part. They absolutely loved the event although the navigation element stumped many, 1 or 2 commented that it was the best thing they'd done on a bike. I also recall that Nick Craig was partial to entering the odd Peak District based event and cleaning up all the checkpoints, arriving half an hour early at the finish and hardly breaking sweat.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I was talking to someone at weekend who's completed two TCR ... he said the BB200 was way harder. Make of that what you will

[fatbikephil]

Out and out fitness is (I reckon) only a small part of being able to do a fast ITT. Tolerating lack of sleep will be more important, as will being able to deal with a range of weather conditions and still be able to function.

Being able to ford waste deep rivers without crying is quite important to