Eccentric Bottom Bracket

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whitestone
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Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:50 pm

Nearly two years ago I bought Ian Barrington's Singular Puffin. This has an EBB that I basically haven't touched, for the simple reason that I don't know what the various positions will do to the handling. Looking from the drive side it's currently in the 6 o'clock position. This weekend at the Lakes Bike Fest I was getting a lot of pedal strikes on stones in and around the tracks that I normally wouldn't consider a problem on my other bikes.

Obviously moving the EBB to the 12 o'clock position is going to raise the effective BB height but what about 3 & 9 o'clock? Or indeed any of the other "o'clocks"? In moving to one of these what am I doing to the handling and feel of the bike?
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psling
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by psling » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:56 pm

6.00 to 12.00 > I'm not sure that it will affect it that much. Axles still in same position, you'd need to raise your saddle which will slacken your seat-tube angle (unless you push your saddle forward) and extend your reach slightly. Probably a case of try it and see...
3.00 & 9.00 does feel different but for me nothing a couple of miles riding won't see adjusting to it and coping.
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by lune ranger » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:36 pm

My beloved Thorn eXXp has an ebb for tightening the chain for a Rohloff.
I've taken it from about 4-9 o'clock 2-3 times as I've stretched chains.
TBH I've never noticed any real difference. The move has happened incrementally though, forward bit by bit as the slack is taken up on the chain. Never in one grand sweep.
You could just move it and see how it feels without any problem. I'd say you probably should move it so it doesn't get stuck.

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:03 pm

I've usually found that 6 o'clock produces the most stable bike and the best climbing ability but it is a small difference and you'll likely not notice much effect in either 3 or 9 o'clock postions once you readjusted your saddle.
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Lazarus
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Lazarus » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:32 pm

what they said

I doubt you will notice any real difference but you may need to give it a gentle * tap with a hammer to persuade it to move after all this time


* you will and it may not be gentle, I tend to knock the crank arm, on the bolt, to get it to move sideways before trying to get it to move eccentrically

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Pirahna
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Pirahna » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:44 pm

I move the EBB around on my single speed when I change gearing or the chain needs adjusting. I do raise and lower the saddle a bit if it doesn't feel right but that's it. On my Jones I run the EBB in it's forward most position, only because I use a leather Brooks saddle which needs more setback on the seatpost, moving the pedals forward gives the same effect.

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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:59 pm

Hmm, 40mins to free the two set screws :shock: This may take longer than I thought :oops:
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by johnnystorm » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:29 pm

Have you drowned it in penetrating fluid? Maybe pop some down the seat tube, pretty sure there's a hole into the BB.

Slap a load of grease on reassembly! :-bd
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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:41 pm

johnnystorm wrote:Have you drowned it in penetrating fluid? Maybe pop some down the seat tube, pretty sure there's a hole into the BB.

Slap a load of grease on reassembly! :-bd
I'm following this advice from Singular - http://www.singularcycles.com/2016/09/1 ... beginners/ I'll take my time as I'm not in a rush :wink:
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Mart
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Mart » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:01 am

For reassembly - a good smear of copper grease helps keep things free of trouble
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Single Speed George
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Single Speed George » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:58 am

i use the EBB on my cooker SS for chain tensioning , so it has moved a fair few times . i dont really notice much diferaince between positions , not really anyway , obviously need to adjust seat in accordaince though

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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:52 am

I applied some penetrating lube (ooer missus!) through the set screw holes a couple of nights ago and yesterday commuted in to work on the bike. (See the "Autumn of Commuting" thread for nice piccie). On the way home there were a couple of strangely satisfying cracks from the bottom bracket area. I was a bit busy last night with other things so didn't get chance to check but did spray a load more lubricant down the seat post. I'll see if the EBB moves tonight.
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ZeroDarkBivi
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by ZeroDarkBivi » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:56 pm

Bob - Did you sort out the problems with your EBB?

Earlier this year I had some problems with my cranks (Shimano XT) coming loose on the Rohloff bike, which turns out to be a problem with the Problem Solvers Eccentric 46 BB, which appears to have mostly seized and disintegrated...! Quite bizarre as it has only done 190 hour of riding (probably not much more than 2,000km), mostly in dry weather, and stored in the dry, since it was fitted less than two years ago. The crank axle is also a bit damaged, but at least it explains why I was finding it so hard to make progress - maybe the Rohloff isn't as draggy as I thought!

Anyway, next step is to try and get the old PF EBB out, then find something that might last a bit longer than this piss-poor Problem Solvers junk; any recommendations?

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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:49 am

No, still seized. Tried more penetrating lube as well as a full canister of plumber's freezing spray in the hope it would shrink the EBB more than the shell and loosen things up but to no avail. The only option I have left is to cut it out and buy another.
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by wriggles » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 pm

My Rooster, which is a close stablemate of the Puffin came with a seized ebb. After checking the screws were all the way out I removed it by carefully supporting the frame and putting an old hollowtech bb in and a good few whacks with the hammer on a block of wood. It was tight though.
Re-assembled with a smear of copperslip and periodic checks and its been fine.
Riding position I much prefer it as low as possible, as makes me feel less perched on the bike. I also prefer it rotated towards the rear axle.

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Zippy
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Zippy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:57 pm

A bit of gentle heat might also be worthwhile before you start attacking stuff with blades.

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by AlasdairMc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:37 pm

Try it with heat - start with boiling water. The steel frame should expand more than the alloy BB, then just welly it with a mallet to try to free it.

Plusgas is good for this sort of thing too, laid on its side with it periodically sprayed all the way round the edge and allowed to drip through.

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ZeroDarkBivi
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by ZeroDarkBivi » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:47 pm

What industry lunatic thought it was a good idea to replace a perfectly good threaded BB with something that requires you to take a hammer to your frame? I'd like to take a hammer to that b******s genitals/fingers/head!!! Followed up by power tools... Yes, I am a bit miffed.

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by stevenshand » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:27 am

Anyway, next step is to try and get the old PF EBB out, then find something that might last a bit longer than this piss-poor Problem Solvers junk; any recommendations?
We designed a PF EBB which we have made for us by Rideworks. You'll find bearing wear is much better than the PS one as the ground pins that link the 2 cups do a much better job of keeping the bearing in phase. Paul at Rideworks also makes his own seals which are great. We used the PS, the Niner and the Wheels Manufacturing one before this and all had premature bearing wear. Since switching to this, things have been infinitely better. You can buy direct from Rideworks :

https://rideworks.cc/shop/ebb/

if he has no stock (or you want a Shand logo!) you can buy from us.

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by HUX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:55 pm

Stick and old bb in it and t wat the bb spanner so the EBB rotates, penetrating fluid, repeat. If it's like the Swift there isn't that much of it in contact with the frame. I had to do the above to a neglected Swift. A good clean out and regrease and it's been perfect.

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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:16 pm

HUX wrote:Stick and old bb in it and t wat the bb spanner so the EBB rotates, penetrating fluid, repeat. If it's like the Swift there isn't that much of it in contact with the frame. I had to do the above to a neglected Swift. A good clean out and regrease and it's been perfect.
I tried the boiling water method this morning - no luck. I'll have a look round for an old BB shell and try that method. It's very stubborn :shock:
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by HUX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:21 pm

If it does move try and alternate the direction of
t watting and keep lubing. It will come out eventually

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:53 pm

I've always had great success with Plusgas. Often worth building little reservoirs to hold a pool of it over the joint to let it seep in. Needs to be given time as well i.e. days at least.

I have also used full fat coke (proper Coca Cola) to help free things.

It'll come, will just take some time and patience / perseverance :cool:

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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by wriggles » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:15 pm

Part of the problem with the Puffin will be its a 100mm wide bb so that much more to get stuck. The retrobike technique for removing stubborn BBs is to bolt the spanner to the bb and then use a 3ft length of scaffold pole with the frame upside down to apply the necessary leverage. I have used this in the past and it does take a nerve racking amount of heave to get it to move.

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whitestone
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Re: Eccentric Bottom Bracket

Post by whitestone » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:18 pm

Looking at pictures of the EBB it's sort of "egg timer" shaped so only a few mm at either end is in contact with the shell. It's just in very good contact with the shell!
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