The Last Straw
Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew
- ZeroDarkBivi
- Posts: 1267
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:18 am
- Location: Somerset
The Last Straw
I may have to finally concede that lightweight camping is no longer an option for me. I just never get adequate sleep any more, primarily due to a legacy of back injuries, that result in constant pains as I toss around on the deck, trying to find a position that allows more than 10 minutes before the pains arrive. A long day riding bumpy trails just adds to the problem. Allergies are also an issue, which are much worse sleeping on the ground, resulting in congestion / breathing trouble, which medication only partially alleviates.
Has anybody found a sleeping pad that delivers a significantly increase in comfort? I’ve tried various things, currently using Neoair (and an inflatable pillow) experimenting with different pressure, but without success. The Sea to Summit dimples design looks like it might offer some benefits, albeit with compromises in weight/insulation, but I’d rather not spend more money increasing my collection of pads unless there is some evidence it might help.
So, is there any hope?
Has anybody found a sleeping pad that delivers a significantly increase in comfort? I’ve tried various things, currently using Neoair (and an inflatable pillow) experimenting with different pressure, but without success. The Sea to Summit dimples design looks like it might offer some benefits, albeit with compromises in weight/insulation, but I’d rather not spend more money increasing my collection of pads unless there is some evidence it might help.
So, is there any hope?
- Bearbonesnorm
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Re: The Last Straw
I've absolutely no experience with them, but would a hammock possibly help?
too slow!
too slow!
Re: The Last Straw
We've got a sea to summit, not particularly comfortable in spite of trying various amounts of air. I'm currently using a Klymit dimpled mat, and I can't say that is super comfortable either.
Obviously I was younger, but I don't recall a bad nights sleep with a closed cell foam mat back in the day.
Though I rarely bother at home, I usually take an antihistamine a day when out and about on the bike.
Obviously I was younger, but I don't recall a bad nights sleep with a closed cell foam mat back in the day.
Though I rarely bother at home, I usually take an antihistamine a day when out and about on the bike.
Blog - thecyclerider.com
- fatbikephil
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Re: The Last Straw
Went through a similar thing two years ago after knacking my back (and still feeling the after effects....) Ended up buying a Jones (short plus high bars = minimal lumbar bending and therefore strain) and signing up for a pilates class (beginner class to start then an advanced class this year). 18 months on its much improved and I generally sleep OK these days on a neo air with an exped pillow and a bit of careful site picking. The pilates was definitely the clincher but I'll never ride a bike with its bars lower than the seat again....
Re: The Last Straw
I found that its the pillow not the sleeping pad that is the secret.
The pad does a lot of things but its the pillow that gets the head elevated so that the spine is horizontal while you sleep.
If your head is not at the correct level your spine will curve up or down and this is exaggerated when you fall asleep and the body relaxes.
For years I used no pillow just what ever was to hand and no pad.
I started using a pad a few years ago but it wasn't until I got a proper pillow that a decent nights sleep was achieved.
The pillow was wedge shaped so no matter how I inflated the pad I could get the correct pillow height.
Experiment at home and if you get the position right try and replicate that with your bivy set up.
The pad does a lot of things but its the pillow that gets the head elevated so that the spine is horizontal while you sleep.
If your head is not at the correct level your spine will curve up or down and this is exaggerated when you fall asleep and the body relaxes.
For years I used no pillow just what ever was to hand and no pad.
I started using a pad a few years ago but it wasn't until I got a proper pillow that a decent nights sleep was achieved.
The pillow was wedge shaped so no matter how I inflated the pad I could get the correct pillow height.
Experiment at home and if you get the position right try and replicate that with your bivy set up.
Zazen - nothing happens next this is it.
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Re: The Last Straw
Try packrafting. An upturned boat makes a great bed
Re: The Last Straw
I have the Neoair X Lite pad in large, use a quilt and 2 inflatable pillows.
The second pillow goes between my knees, I'm a side, semi fetal sleeper.
This combination allows me to move around and find a comfortable position.... never sleep as well as when out.
I will say that getting off the ground is nice but can be hard to find.
Love the fact auto spell jobbies changes fetal to feral.
The second pillow goes between my knees, I'm a side, semi fetal sleeper.
This combination allows me to move around and find a comfortable position.... never sleep as well as when out.
I will say that getting off the ground is nice but can be hard to find.
Love the fact auto spell jobbies changes fetal to feral.
Re: The Last Straw
I reckon going long and wide (Exped in this particular case) could potentially give you a decent amount of room to move about / get comfortable. Could still be reasonably lightweight.
If I were you, I'd borrow some pads first and try them out at home to see if they feel OK.
Oh, and I wouldn't skimp on the R value. Cold back are rarely comfortable backs.
If I were you, I'd borrow some pads first and try them out at home to see if they feel OK.
Oh, and I wouldn't skimp on the R value. Cold back are rarely comfortable backs.
Re: The Last Straw
Which pillow is this? I've got a Klymit one currently but it's not ideal.Mariner wrote: I started using a pad a few years ago but it wasn't until I got a proper pillow that a decent nights sleep was achieved.
The pillow was wedge shaped so no matter how I inflated the pad I could get the correct pillow height.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
- gairym
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- Location: Chamonix, France (but a Yorkshire lad).
Re: The Last Straw
I'm also very much interested in getting comfier and having more (some) sleep when tramping it up.
Had a great night out last night.... except for the sleep aspect which was, shall we say, NOT so good.
I have back issues like Craig but with the added bonus of being a larger gentleman.
So.....
Neoair Xlite in large OR Exped SynMat UL LW - any reason for choosing one over the other???
Also interested to hear about this wedge shaped pillow as the pillow aspect is certainly a problem for me (I use what I've got stuffed into a dry bag and wrapped in a top).
Had a great night out last night.... except for the sleep aspect which was, shall we say, NOT so good.
I have back issues like Craig but with the added bonus of being a larger gentleman.
So.....
Neoair Xlite in large OR Exped SynMat UL LW - any reason for choosing one over the other???
Also interested to hear about this wedge shaped pillow as the pillow aspect is certainly a problem for me (I use what I've got stuffed into a dry bag and wrapped in a top).
Re: The Last Straw
Sea to Summit Aeros Ultralight. It has a Schnozzle compatable valve which is a double valve that opens completely to vent. I wish my Exped had this type of valve instead of that stupid dibber thing that you jam in to let the air out.sean_iow wrote:Which pillow is this? I've got a Klymit one currently but it's not ideal.Mariner wrote: I started using a pad a few years ago but it wasn't until I got a proper pillow that a decent nights sleep was achieved.
The pillow was wedge shaped so no matter how I inflated the pad I could get the correct pillow height.
And a big thank you Sean as I dug my pillow out to check what it was and there was my SKS tyre checker. I haven't seen that since BB last year.
Zazen - nothing happens next this is it.
Re: The Last Straw
That's ok. Should I assume that as you store a digital pressure gauge with the pillow that getting the pressure 'just right' is critical to a goods night sleepMariner wrote:And a big thank you Sean as I dug my pillow out to check what it was and there was my SKS tyre checker. I haven't seen that since BB last year.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
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Re: The Last Straw
I just pull the tab attached to the green rubber valve.Mariner wrote: It has a Schnozzle compatable valve which is a double valve that opens completely to vent. I wish my Exped had this type of valve instead of that stupid dibber thing that you jam in to let the air out.
Re: The Last Straw
I have the premium version of that pillow. It's really quite nice.
As for the mats... I personally don't recommend either for the UK other than in the summer. I've used both and found both let the feeling of the cold ground through.
But I'm a sensitive little snowflake, so you can ignore my wimpishness.
As for the mats... I personally don't recommend either for the UK other than in the summer. I've used both and found both let the feeling of the cold ground through.
But I'm a sensitive little snowflake, so you can ignore my wimpishness.
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Re: The Last Straw
Having had my neck, back, and both legs broken in a car crash, albeit 20yrs ago, I hear you on the pain thing.
I’ve a Klymit mat that is spotty dog, and comfy..
Coupled with a sea to summit pillow?
Just about perfect imho..
I’ve a Klymit mat that is spotty dog, and comfy..
Coupled with a sea to summit pillow?
Just about perfect imho..
- gairym
- Posts: 3137
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- Location: Chamonix, France (but a Yorkshire lad).
Re: The Last Straw
Sea to Summit pillow just ordered.
Seemed to make sense to try changing the pillow first as it's £30 instead of £150 for a new mat!
At the very least it's a good excuse to get my ass out into the hills again soon to give it a test run.....
Seemed to make sense to try changing the pillow first as it's £30 instead of £150 for a new mat!
At the very least it's a good excuse to get my ass out into the hills again soon to give it a test run.....
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Re: The Last Straw
I bought a full length Klymit V Ultralight slim Mat from Ultralight outdoor gear earlier this year. Ive found it very comfortable. Sometimes I take a Thermarest trekker pillow which is super comfy and makes my sleeping set up really cosy. Almost too cosy.
- gairym
- Posts: 3137
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:05 am
- Location: Chamonix, France (but a Yorkshire lad).
Re: The Last Straw
I think this is key to many differences of opinion on this subject.journeyman wrote:Almost too cosy.
My existing kit is geared towards it being theoretically possible for me to get my head down during some kind of time relevant 'event' or ITT.
It'll work and some rest will result but it's certainly not fun.
My search for more comfort this time round is totally about making the prospect of sleeping out in the hills much more appealing for occasional fun outings.
Very different criteria and resulting products to suit each purpose.
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Re: The Last Straw
i have the same problems with back pain,i bought a jones plus frame so i can have a more upright riding position like bars higher than the seat with minimal spacers under the stem,i use the seat to summit insulated mat in xl its like a egg box construction and find it the best mat for my back problems
- ZeroDarkBivi
- Posts: 1267
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:18 am
- Location: Somerset
Re: The Last Straw
Thanks for the ideas.
Given the efforts I have gone to just to get a decent nights kip in my bed at home (which I still can't replicate in the van - more memory foam inbound), it would be silly to think a slightly different pillow will make much difference. But I am silly enough to give it a try as I depsperately want it to work...!
Given the efforts I have gone to just to get a decent nights kip in my bed at home (which I still can't replicate in the van - more memory foam inbound), it would be silly to think a slightly different pillow will make much difference. But I am silly enough to give it a try as I depsperately want it to work...!