Following on from the recent packraft threads, I've got a few questions that someone may know the answers to:
Firstly, has anyone any experience of rafts from, Longshore International, Nortik or MRS?
Next, do the river access laws in Scotland differ from England / Wales? Looking at both the Wye and the Severn and there seems to be a long list of stipulations and regulations governing where you can land, when you can use certain stretches of river, etc. At first glance, it's nearly enough to put you off from bothering
Generaly the river access mirrors the land access as far as I am aware here in Scotland. MRS or NRS? if the latter then I have experience of their rafts but not the packrafts. well made and good value, as mentioned, can't speak to their pacrrafts.
I used to paddle many years ago now, and even then the access to rivers in Wales and England were, problematic!!. Was quite tiresome to be honest, one of the reasons I went to work abroad, as guiding/coaching was such a pain here(there).
Can't answer the first bit, but re. access, yes very different:
Scotland: simple, don't be a dick (i.e. responsible access pretty much everywhere under the LRA, just like cycling/walking)
England: bloody complicated, everywhere is owned by someone (except tidal waters where there's a right of navigation) and there's no general right of access. To give an example locally to me, we have the Tyne Access Agreement drawn up by the British Canoe Union (amongst others) which sets out when and where you can paddle on the Tyne and a load of other nearby rivers. This seems to be generally regarded as better than most areas where there's no access agreement, but contraversial because some think it concedes too much (see also: Snowdon voluntary cycling ban). Got to admit, it's all a bit tiresome. Better to head north of the border.
In practice, the same principles apply to paddling as to wild camping. The main issue on the ground appears to be grumpy fishermen (and women), who by law HAVE to buy a fishing licence and so think it gives them exclusive right to a bit of water.
The other issue with paddling in England and Wales is that of entry, egress and portage. You will almost always be crossing land with the usual access restrictions. Again, not generally a problem in Scotland.
thenorthwind wrote:
In practice, the same principles apply to paddling as to wild camping. The main issue on the ground appears to be grumpy fishermen (and women), who by law HAVE to buy a fishing licence and so think it gives them exclusive right to a bit of water.
I think you need a licence to navigate rivers in England & Wales too, from British Waterways probably although the BCU (British Canoe Union) may be your best resource for information? As Colin says, access and egress is a major issue when travelling through because someone somewhere owns the river banks (although the Wye and the Severn have lots of quiet spots in the upper reaches and lots of riverside pubs further down stream )
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.
It does seam bad south of the border but the Dee and Seven are OK in places.
you need a licence to use the canals legally as your on a raft/dingy you could plead ignorance until forced to buy one, but they are about £30 and come with insurance.
I think you'll only get abuse from fishermen here any.
I'm looking forward to the challenge, mine here in about 3 weeks time.
I'd better tell the wife that I've ordered one at some time soon although I won't tell her the price
Well, this (and the other packrafting threads) have inspired me to buy the Packrafting book and I'm watching with great interest for the MYOG packraft.
As for access, there's plenty of people who's names I recognise on here from my paddling days so I suspect that any information that I have will be long out of date. However, it's worth getting a copy of the English/Scottish White Water Guides and The Welsh Rivers. They have Grade 1/2/3 rivers listed (as well as stuff that is a lot harder...) and will detail access points, environmental awareness, etc.
Contacting your local canoe club is probably a good bet too, they will probably have plenty of advice.
It's a long, long standing question of whether you can 'own' a river (and naturally, views differ) and whether rights of navigation exist or matter. It is definitely worth noting that the 'waterways licence' only applies to those managed by waterways agencies (mostly canals and some canalised rivers and other places, there's a list on the BC site).
tomwardill wrote:However, it's worth getting a copy of the English/Scottish White Water Guides and The Welsh Rivers. They have Grade 1/2/3 rivers listed (as well as stuff that is a lot harder...) and will detail access points, environmental awareness, etc.
My advice for rafting in any country (next to obvious training etc.). Start with river guidebooks. Some contain all you need to know
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