Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content)

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jameso
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Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content)

Post by jameso »

One thing that bugs me when on the roads is how many drivers pass too close. I think some of it is ignorance and some of it is DGAS. I'm not sure what the answer is but I'd accepted that one rider alone can't change national mentalities and I try to be quite zen about it (since the alternative is more like kung-fu). Anyway - a put up or get out attitude.

Last weekend I was enjoying a ride across the Cotswolds and saw someone had strung fluo orange ribbon in loads of trees to mark out a route of some sort. It was really visible in the breeze agains the green background. Some of it had fallen off - I picked up about 18" of the stuff and attached it with an inner-tube band that's on my bars to the end of my bar, leaving a foot or more trailing as a streamer (I was in that kind of mood, OK). I have a hipster-tw@t rando safety triangle (home made of course) hanging off my seat pack and thought maybe the handlebar streamer would add more hi viz effect.

I've noticed no difference in having the rando triange on my saddle or seat pack, I just like having something visible there as I don't like dayglo tops etc much. But after just under a couple of hundred miles with my jolly orange bar streamer on I'm beginning to think it has an effect. Perhaps it's impossible to be seen as a serious roadie with streamers on your bars and there's studies that suggest an experienced-looking cyclist gets less space on the roads. Maybe they wonder if I'm a child from a distance, a bit 'special' or just see it as a bit of fun. Maybe it appears as a kind of opposite of how you get close-passed more often if you're hooning through town on an open road, or going some up a short rise, as if a certain driver feels challenged by a fast road rider and has to react, to be superior. The roads are competitive, space-defended environments after all.
I think all drivers make split-second judgements on situations and other road users and perhaps this streamer says children, unthreatening, fun, something - enough to give me the benefit of any decision. It does gets attention very well and sits right at the far right edge of the bike (on the end of a wide flared bar), making me seem wider or changing the reference point drivers base passing distance on, like those old reflector arms but more effective in the daylight. I'd say I've had fewer close passes since fitting it and been suprised by the usual suspect loud Golfs or BMWs and SUVs giving me a fair bit of room, or the lack of close passes going up a short section of road I know well where it's usually fairly common.

Positive bias, too soon to say or a beneficial way of affecting split second driver thinking? Not sure. Maybe try it and report back? If it doesn't work at least you know you'll really be winding up the next roadie you pass :grin:
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voodoo_simon
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by voodoo_simon »

Have a Crikey, how much hi-viz pink gilet, when I wear it, not only do I get extra space (I assume the driver thinks I’m a wobbly female :wink: ), I also get young lads hanging out the window too winking at me. The look on their faces when they see mine :lol:

Normally wear a green hi-cuz jacket and I ‘think’ I get extra space over normal colours, but I definitely do in the pink :-bd
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Dyffers
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Dyffers »

Sort of similar: I've found whilst commuting in the dark in winter that if I point a bright rear light at the floor to the right of the bike, creating a pool of red light a few feet roadside of me, cars go round the light giving me considerably more space.

I think there's perhaps something subconscious that tells us to give an unusual situation a wider berth / more care. I read somewhere years ago that someone on a very low recumbent with a flag on the back actually preferred it to an upright in traffic due to the WTF factor giving them more space.
jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

Interesting.. I'd read the report by the academic who wore a blonde ponytail and found there was a difference in passing space, a pink ribbon streamer had crossed my mind for that reason - not sure if I prefer that or a pink Rafa gilet!

The rear light point also, it does work. I had a Sigma light that created a large pool of light in that way, it was great until it failed. Replaced it, that failed, gave up : ) I think good, non-dazzling non-flashing lights have a similar effect on rural roads at night. Less stress/wind-up caused by a non-flashing light = better passing, for a number of possble reasons.
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99percentchimp
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by 99percentchimp »

Interesting. I used some highly reflective, 360 ankle bans when commuting at night on rural roads. I was convinced this gave more warning to drivers as they could see 'something' unidentified earlier in their approach and so slowed to a more planned pass.

I like the idea of the offside, rear red light pool creating some safe space that the driver negotiates... there were some lights that put two parallel lines on the ground to the rear too - I guess based on the same research/principle.
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Richard G
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Richard G »

Yeah, I liked that projected line idea. Was pretty damn expensive though.
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AlexGold
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by AlexGold »

Richard G wrote:Yeah, I liked that projected line idea. Was pretty damn expensive though.
I'm not going to say I'm sure this works as well as the (clearly photoshopped) example picture, but maybe worth a try?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Laser-5-LE ... Sw4DJYmuIT
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Ian
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Ian »

Interesting stuff James. Got a picture?

I’ve started riding to work more, and though I can do most of it off road, the bit through town can be challenging in heavy traffic. I bought some bright yellow shorts in the CRC clearance a few week ago and noticed a greater sense of space in people passing me. I guess the gap will close up again when they get used to them/ me.

Perhaps that’s a point - if everyone had yellow streamers (or shorts for that matter), it wouldn’t be long before they’re not seen?
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Richard G
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Richard G »

AlexGold wrote:
Richard G wrote:Yeah, I liked that projected line idea. Was pretty damn expensive though.
I'm not going to say I'm sure this works as well as the (clearly photoshopped) example picture, but maybe worth a try?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Laser-5-LE ... Sw4DJYmuIT
Yeah, worth a punt and some actual pics for that price.
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Dave Barter
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Dave Barter »

I took a slightly different approach

https://phased.co.uk/being-human/
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99percentchimp
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by 99percentchimp »

Dave Barter wrote:I took a slightly different approach

https://phased.co.uk/being-human/
Eloquently put Dave.... like this solution too :-bd
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jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

Interesting stuff James. Got a picture?
:smile: It's just a streamer, looks a bit like this
Image

Made from either some of that thin orange ribbon you see used as barrier or course markers doubled up, or now using 1 length of some of this stuff that I made my triangle from, 25mm wide dayglo reflective strip material,
Image

... held onto the bar by sewing it onto a 20mm section of inner tube. Doesn't get in the way of the grip or shifter and my arm obscures it from my view when on hoods or in the drops, so it doesn't annoy me as I ride.

(huge images edited/replaced..)
Perhaps that’s a point - if everyone had yellow streamers (or shorts for that matter), it wouldn’t be long before they’re not seen?
Arms races - happens with daft dayglo clothing and annoying as F--- flashing lights, but I'm confident the average roadie won't go for bar streamers... and I think some of this is about space marking, links with rags on ladders, barrier tape etc. Coloured clothing I'm not sure matters in this respect, more of a simple visibility thing (aside from the pink mentioned above, works via a different psychological trigger)
jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

Dave Barter wrote:I took a slightly different approach

https://phased.co.uk/being-human/
A good read Dave, and good to know it works. Shouldn't need it though, as you say. I read some examples of consumer psychology recently, I think it was on the twitter feed of the guy who wrote the book (The Choice Factory, interesting if you're into that kind of thing) and there was one where they replaced the typical illustration of a disabled person on a parking bay sign with an actual photo of a disabled driver - cut down parking issues effectively. Snap decisions and how we see the other person, and we're programmed to do this. If we live in a society of 100,000 we can't care about everyone and we make decisions based on valuing those closest to us and defending against the rest. That must affect traffic and in turn how bikes (and anything else) are treated within it, plus raises a few Qs about our society itself - and that's usually the thought process point where I look to turn off the road or out of the town and into the woods ... change the record :-bd
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TheBrownDog
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by TheBrownDog »

Sam of this parish puts his dog in the back of his cargo bike and gets more space, time and respect than he does when he carries his kids. Go figure.
I'm just going outside ...
jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

^ Stumps me. Maybe it's the 'might be a bit special' first thought, rather than 'might be a lefty liberal Guardian reader....' :grin:
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by fatbikephil »

Dave Barter wrote:I took a slightly different approach

https://phased.co.uk/being-human/
There were some very good motorcycle safety adds using that idea - a film of various folk on bikes with large neon signs attached with an arrow and a name and a caption (going home from work, out for a ride, expecting a baby etc).

Agreed most car drivers see cyclists / peds / motorcycles as objects and not people. They see other cars as objects too to be fair.

As to the OP, I've never found what I wear makes any difference to close passes, I rely on road positioning which works most of the time.....
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JohnClimber
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by JohnClimber »

Our firm does pink hi viz vests for the girls who always loose their orange ones when the lads loose there's.

I'm going to have to try/borrow one of there's on my commute home one day
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by Alpinum »

Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content)

Ride a penny farthing.

Also very, very bright lights in the dark.

Well, that's two, but one for riding in daylight and one for the night.

With this in mind, the more stupid or weird you appear, the more space you get.
jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

As to the OP, I've never found what I wear makes any difference to close passes, I rely on road positioning which works most of the time.....
Same here, I have a bright orange gilet that I wear part of some rides, no difference. I can see how pink could have an effect though. The streamer might do the positioning job for me as it's sat a foot or more further out to the right than I am, beyond any wider position I might take to deter squeezed passes.
Ride a penny farthing.
An extreme case of the 'a bit special' theory? I can see that working but maybe a step far for me :grin: Probably like a horse rider, being high up gives you a dominant position plus they're scared you'll fall on top of them...
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by ericrobo »

It’s pretty simple really but will take a few more years I’m afraid....

Remember when after going to the pub on a Friday night you had to put all your clothes in the wash and ‘defumigate’ ?

Unthinkable now (unless you sit outside in the sun for your pint :mrgreen: )

Well, bikes and vehicles do not mix, no matter what you do.... AND they will never mix.

There are more and more schemes now where councils are recognising this and are providing traffic free cycling and walking routes.

You should be able to get from every town centre to another town centre by a traffic free route.

With the greater and greater increase in obesity of adults and children (and look at some of the dogs too, god forbid), the “thinkers” in our society, I mean the paid “thinkers”, not us :lol: ) are coming round to this view, and with battery power even the obese won’t have an excuse.

I realise this is a difficult concept for pure roadies, so they may want to carry on using roads (and not doing their lungs any good when powering hard uphill being overtaken by vehicles :mrgreen:

But in the meantime... whatever you feel like...

Why not take up off-road cycling... unless you commute...
jameso
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by jameso »

Ian, I took a couple of pics during this weekend's road-packing trip (and hope earlier reply didn't seem sarcastic as it may have done in hindsight, not intended! :grin: ) -

Image

Image

Image

Another 2 long days, partly on roads I know fairly well, partly exploring new roads, and I'm more rather than less convinced it's worth having.

And 2 weekends running I've stopped before it got dark - set up in a nice spot at 8.30ish, watched the sun set and then got up early for a sunrise cowboy coffee or 2. Rediscovering the art of the camp-out bivi, rather than the audax crash-out style of spot that you tend to end up in when scanning the roadsides with a head torch at midnight :lol:

Image


I know what you mean ericrobo, I've been a Sustrans spupported for over a decade and I use NCNs and Sustrans / traffic-free routes in my route planning, but I also simply enjoy riding on the road. Not A-road TT craziness or big bunch club runs, just solo miles on lanes and less-busy B-roads. It's a contrast to off-road riding. Both are great.
ianfitz
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by ianfitz »

Good idea James,I can imaging that being pretty noticeable.

Also. What bar bag is that?
Image
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Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

Post by pistonbroke »

    Ian, it's the Ortlieb accessory bar bag, I've got one which I picked up at the CAT700, it's a nice bit of kit. Works well on it's own or as a quick release bag on their bar roll. I'm intrigued by the umbrella mount though, hope it's not the hot setup for TNR :???:
    jameso
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    Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

    Post by jameso »

    The only one of the Ortleib bags I got on test that I asked to keep... it's great. Used just that, the Wildcat small frame bag and a Tiger seat pack for the France N to S ride a few weeks back. Really handy bag.
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    Re: Driver psychology, 1 answer to road space? (MYOG content

    Post by JustinF »

    Not necessarily relevant but I've felt there's a better attitude towards me when running with a full pannier touring setup than when I'm in lycra roadie mode, my road manners are the same but there seems to be more forgiveness/less conflict if I'm in hobo mode not recreational why the feck are you in my lane mode....
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