First Dynamo wheel build help!
Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew
First Dynamo wheel build help!
So, I was in the shed today and noticed an old wtb 29er (i19) rim and thought I could try a wheel build from scratch. Then thought if I'm going to do that I might as well build a dynamo front.
To the best of my knowledge the rim is sound, seems OK by eye. If came off a rear wheel that I had to scrap as the freewheel hub was shot and irreparable.
Any suggestions for a dynamo hub ( bolted disc, 9mm QR) that will actually charge at 10-15kph speeds?
Will it need to be dished enough to need different length spokes? Does it even need to be dished due to the disc?
How do I know what length spokes to order? Do I get the hub first and then measure diameter minus hub spoke holes diameter and half?
Sorry for possibly stupid questions, I've trued wheels before but (obviously)never built from scratch. Seemed like something worth trying as I'm not likely to buy a ready made one.
Thanks for any advice
To the best of my knowledge the rim is sound, seems OK by eye. If came off a rear wheel that I had to scrap as the freewheel hub was shot and irreparable.
Any suggestions for a dynamo hub ( bolted disc, 9mm QR) that will actually charge at 10-15kph speeds?
Will it need to be dished enough to need different length spokes? Does it even need to be dished due to the disc?
How do I know what length spokes to order? Do I get the hub first and then measure diameter minus hub spoke holes diameter and half?
Sorry for possibly stupid questions, I've trued wheels before but (obviously)never built from scratch. Seemed like something worth trying as I'm not likely to buy a ready made one.
Thanks for any advice
- gairym
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Interesting.....
I too am considering taking the plunge and just yesterday was looking at an old rim in the garage and contemplating this exact plan.
I have very little clue about all things dynamo as it's never really seemed worth the effort (and risk of things going pear-shaped in the middle of nowhere) but depending on the advice given here I might well give it a bash.....
Very much looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.
I too am considering taking the plunge and just yesterday was looking at an old rim in the garage and contemplating this exact plan.
I have very little clue about all things dynamo as it's never really seemed worth the effort (and risk of things going pear-shaped in the middle of nowhere) but depending on the advice given here I might well give it a bash.....
Very much looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
For a budget build to the axle type you want I'd recommend either a Shimano XT or an Alpkit Lovemud. The Shimano is famed for it's longevity and can be rebuilt using loose ball bearings. The Alpkit is based on another more expensive brand where there have been reliability issues although Alpkit say they have had very few returns. The advantage of the Alpkit is that their dynamo wheelset uses a WTB rim branded Lovemud so they should be able to advise on spoke length. Ive got both and had no issues with either but my riding is done in much drier conditions than yours.
Oh, and re the speed question, few hub dynamos will give a decent output below 15kph, maybe Son but then you're getting very spendy.
Oh, and re the speed question, few hub dynamos will give a decent output below 15kph, maybe Son but then you're getting very spendy.
Last edited by pistonbroke on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
If you've never built a wheel before then I would recommend buying this book
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
It will tell you all you need to know to finish up with a wheel as good as any you could buy. It also explains how to measure the hub and rim to use the on-line calculator to work out the spoke lengths. You will almost certainly need new spokes.
As for the dyno hub to choose, I've got an Exposure/SP although mine is QR15. First one lasted about 250 miles, the replacement has done over 1500 miles. SON are reputedly the best... but also the most expensive. Shimano are cheapest and get good reviews.
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
It will tell you all you need to know to finish up with a wheel as good as any you could buy. It also explains how to measure the hub and rim to use the on-line calculator to work out the spoke lengths. You will almost certainly need new spokes.
As for the dyno hub to choose, I've got an Exposure/SP although mine is QR15. First one lasted about 250 miles, the replacement has done over 1500 miles. SON are reputedly the best... but also the most expensive. Shimano are cheapest and get good reviews.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
I've just bought another dynamo hub. It's a Shimano XT. Centerlock of course but that's not a reason to avoid it - very much the contrary.
As for spoke measurements etc I'd advise downloading Roger Mussons excellent book. He does provide a guide to measurement and advises against using manufacturer-supplied numbers in any spoke size calculator but I've yet to come a cropper doing this.
As for spoke measurements etc I'd advise downloading Roger Mussons excellent book. He does provide a guide to measurement and advises against using manufacturer-supplied numbers in any spoke size calculator but I've yet to come a cropper doing this.
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Cheers for that advice and links.
I definitely need new spokes as the old ones were just cut out
I'm confused that the love mud hub says each flange is a different diameter, but flange to centre is the same! Some alternate universe going on or me just being clueless again?
https://www.alpkit.com/products/love-mud-juice
Anyway wtb rim and love mud hub means email alpkit for spoke lengths. First problem though is to get it past the chancellor
I definitely need new spokes as the old ones were just cut out
I'm confused that the love mud hub says each flange is a different diameter, but flange to centre is the same! Some alternate universe going on or me just being clueless again?
https://www.alpkit.com/products/love-mud-juice
Anyway wtb rim and love mud hub means email alpkit for spoke lengths. First problem though is to get it past the chancellor
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
I buy my spokes from Rose Bikes - DT Swiss Comps.
Flange diameter and flange to centre often vary. The latter is to the centre of the hub width-wise.
Flange diameter and flange to centre often vary. The latter is to the centre of the hub width-wise.
Last edited by ScotRoutes on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
The different flange diameters means you can build a wheel with different dishing with the same length spokes. If you call Alpkit, ask for Neil Sutton, he'll sort you out.
Another thought, make sure the rim you've found is 32 holes!
Another thought, make sure the rim you've found is 32 holes!
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Just some advice, a 29er doing 10-15kph may not charge a USB device. On a Patagonia tour recently I averaged 11kph for a days cycling (it was effing windy) on a 26inch wheel, the turning on and off of the device whilst charging (the screen helpfully telling me my iphone was charging!) actually depleted the battery rather than charging it.
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Oops! Well that was my concern too, but I was hoping any road/downhill sections might help it pick up.
I normally manage fine with a battery block, but just thought if I was to build a front wheel it'd be worth it.
I also might use the drop bar mtb with skinnier tyres sometimes for to*ring that might have some 'gravel' so higher speeds.
I normally manage fine with a battery block, but just thought if I was to build a front wheel it'd be worth it.
I also might use the drop bar mtb with skinnier tyres sometimes for to*ring that might have some 'gravel' so higher speeds.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
The setup that works for me is to connect the dynamo to a Kemo rectifier/switch then via a buffer battery to my gps or phone. There have been times when I've plugged a gps in with 20% battery, gone for a ride and come back with it fully charged. The swich also allows direct powering of a Revo light, obviously it won't do both at the same time.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
This book is great, I've now built 4 wheels using it as my guide and they're all still going strong.sean_iow wrote:If you've never built a wheel before then I would recommend buying this book
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
It will tell you all you need to know to finish up with a wheel as good as any you could buy. It also explains how to measure the hub and rim to use the on-line calculator to work out the spoke lengths. You will almost certainly need new spokes.
Definitely get the hub first, then measure the hub and rim. These measurements will enable you to calculate the spoke length(s) you need.
- Jurassic pusher
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
I totally agree with all of the above!squaquerone wrote:This book is great, I've now built 4 wheels using it as my guide and they're all still going strong.sean_iow wrote:If you've never built a wheel before then I would recommend buying this book
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
It will tell you all you need to know to finish up with a wheel as good as any you could buy. It also explains how to measure the hub and rim to use the on-line calculator to work out the spoke lengths. You will almost certainly need new spokes.
Definitely get the hub first, then measure the hub and rim. These measurements will enable you to calculate the spoke length(s) you need.
Having never built a wheel before getting that ebook, I have now built 6, including a rohloff speedhub.
It makes every step very clear.
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
SON spoke length calculator https://www.nabendynamo.de/service/spei ... er_en.html
I was looking for their build instructions but think it may ave been instructions included with the dynamo.
I was looking for their build instructions but think it may ave been instructions included with the dynamo.
Zazen - nothing happens next this is it.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Best place for spokes I've found is spokesave.co.uk, stainless steel spokes with
Brass nipples for a great price
Brass nipples for a great price
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Cheers guys
Talking nipples
Any preferences for materials, particularly for our off road purposes?
Talking nipples
Any preferences for materials, particularly for our off road purposes?
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
I find alloy ones just corrode hence why I use brass, dip them in Vaseline when building...
Hmmm... " dip my nipples in Vaseline".....I can hear the sniggers already
Hmmm... " dip my nipples in Vaseline".....I can hear the sniggers already
- pushbikemike
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Another vote for this book. Makes wheel building very straightforward.Jurassic pusher wrote:I totally agree with all of the above!squaquerone wrote:This book is great, I've now built 4 wheels using it as my guide and they're all still going strong.sean_iow wrote:If you've never built a wheel before then I would recommend buying this book
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
It will tell you all you need to know to finish up with a wheel as good as any you could buy. It also explains how to measure the hub and rim to use the on-line calculator to work out the spoke lengths. You will almost certainly need new spokes.
Definitely get the hub first, then measure the hub and rim. These measurements will enable you to calculate the spoke length(s) you need.
Having never built a wheel before getting that ebook, I have now built 6, including a rohloff speedhub.
It makes every step very clear.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Any brass nipples with any dt swiss spokes... there are others like Sapim and Ritchey. Ritchey are probably tge best I've come across but I imagine they cost alot and Dt Swiss comp or revolution just work...Moder-dye wrote:Cheers guys
Talking nipples
Any preferences for materials, particularly for our off road purposes?
When you order tge spokes there is all the chance that they will send tge nipples with. If buying seperately though be aware tgat tgere are different diameters at the threads for different spokes.
Stay away from anything tgats branded as shimano when it come to spokes/nipples as they go against the grain and it'd be extra investment in tools (just get the correct size Spokey and ypu will be sorted)...
Dont get the funny looking bladed spokes as they are slightly more hassle (than what they are worth in my opinion)...
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Just to complicate matters further, there are different lengths of nipple available as well. The length also affects the spoke length you need. If you're planning to build more wheels, one of the most underrated tools is a screwdriver style spinner that has a little tab on the end that means you wind all the nipples up evenly initially then use a conventional spoke key to finally tension the wheel. Just Riding Along sell one thats cheaper than the Park tools version and is identical.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
If money is no object go for SON 28. I've had one for 10years and it still works fine and runs smooth (for a dyno hub)
I also have a Love Mud Juice and it's Ok. Make sure it is tight in the QR as mine wants to rotate in the dropout and strains the connecting wires.
Also I had a bit of a brake compatibility problem with my build - Fat Lab 55 rim (29+ size)and BB7 caliper. The spokes were rubbing on the inside adjuster. I resolved this with subtle use of a Dremel!
The Juice managed to keep my iPhone running Strava over 3 days of slow as hell MTB riding last month with an ave moving speed of barely 10km/h. I run mine via an older Igaro and a Cinq5 buffer battery.
I also have a Love Mud Juice and it's Ok. Make sure it is tight in the QR as mine wants to rotate in the dropout and strains the connecting wires.
Also I had a bit of a brake compatibility problem with my build - Fat Lab 55 rim (29+ size)and BB7 caliper. The spokes were rubbing on the inside adjuster. I resolved this with subtle use of a Dremel!
The Juice managed to keep my iPhone running Strava over 3 days of slow as hell MTB riding last month with an ave moving speed of barely 10km/h. I run mine via an older Igaro and a Cinq5 buffer battery.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
WSC
WSC
Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Another vote for Roger Musson's book. My first wheel built was a 700C rim onto an SP-PV8 dynohub and that lasted right until I had to replace the hub (worn bearings) after about 16,000km (road). The replacement dropped straight in and tensioned up in no time with the same rim and spokes and it's still strong.
One thing — buying branded spokes in the UK is an effing-expensive endeavour, for what they are. I've found it cheaper to get DT Swiss spokes from Rose Bikes in Germany, even with the whopping €7 shipping charge, compared to anything in the UK. Rose also does an adjustable nipple-spinning bit for a power driver (https://www.rosebikes.com/article/cyclu ... aid:249279) — I DON'T use the drill with it, but just an extension rod and spin it with my fingers. YMMV.
Another thing — on dipping your nipples in lube, I don't go for this. I touch the tips of the spokes into a little chain oil, or 3-in-1, Musson-style — just a little, mind. You want the nipples to go on and to be lightly greased so that they can be adjusted after years of service. But lathering the nipples with lube is an invitation to them slackening off over bumps, as I experienced on the first fixed-gear rear wheel I built, which very nearly came totally apart on a hilly 200! A very wobbly final 50km to home and then I took it all apart, removed the excess lube and built it up again — it has been fine since (three years, 15,000km or so, possibly more). Too much lube and it also becomes easy to over-tension the spokes, such that they'll be impossible to undo once the wheels have had a couple of years' service.
A spoke tensiometer is a nice toy, but you don't actually need one. I built several sets of wheels before getting one and it didn't make enough of a difference to justify the £60-odd I paid.
I haven't gotten around to rebuilding my MTB wheels yet — at 21 years old, the (probably alu) nipples have seized solid, so I put up with the slight shimmy. I'll wait until I've worn the rims through.
One thing — buying branded spokes in the UK is an effing-expensive endeavour, for what they are. I've found it cheaper to get DT Swiss spokes from Rose Bikes in Germany, even with the whopping €7 shipping charge, compared to anything in the UK. Rose also does an adjustable nipple-spinning bit for a power driver (https://www.rosebikes.com/article/cyclu ... aid:249279) — I DON'T use the drill with it, but just an extension rod and spin it with my fingers. YMMV.
Another thing — on dipping your nipples in lube, I don't go for this. I touch the tips of the spokes into a little chain oil, or 3-in-1, Musson-style — just a little, mind. You want the nipples to go on and to be lightly greased so that they can be adjusted after years of service. But lathering the nipples with lube is an invitation to them slackening off over bumps, as I experienced on the first fixed-gear rear wheel I built, which very nearly came totally apart on a hilly 200! A very wobbly final 50km to home and then I took it all apart, removed the excess lube and built it up again — it has been fine since (three years, 15,000km or so, possibly more). Too much lube and it also becomes easy to over-tension the spokes, such that they'll be impossible to undo once the wheels have had a couple of years' service.
A spoke tensiometer is a nice toy, but you don't actually need one. I built several sets of wheels before getting one and it didn't make enough of a difference to justify the £60-odd I paid.
I haven't gotten around to rebuilding my MTB wheels yet — at 21 years old, the (probably alu) nipples have seized solid, so I put up with the slight shimmy. I'll wait until I've worn the rims through.
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Re: First Dynamo wheel build help!
Just to throw another small spanner in the works: dont forget that unless you only plan on running lights whilst moving, but rather want some usable power for other things like charging things etc etc. You will need to look at other items to purchasr such as a Sinewave or Plug3; cache battery that can take a trickle charge, eyc etc (other bits/bobs like splitters, although I'm no expert!)...
After seeing what Stu responded to another thread I opened, I would say you could go for the Shimano DN80 (which is what I plan on)
After seeing what Stu responded to another thread I opened, I would say you could go for the Shimano DN80 (which is what I plan on)