Wild Camping - Steven Neale

[Dave Barter]

This book was given to me as a present, maybe I am late to the party but 25 pages in and I really like the author and identify with his ethos.

Anyone else read it?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Anyone else read it?

No but I now feel that I ought to.

[Fat tyre kicker]

Same here.....on the watch list...

[Dave Barter]

Anyone else read it?

No but I now feel that I ought to.

I'll send it your way when done. I think you'll nod a lot in places ..but he does mention the odd fire

[Matt]

Anyone else read it?

No but I now feel that I ought to.

I'll send it your way when done. I think you'll nod a lot in places ..but he does mention the odd fire

Burn him!!!!

[JohnClimber]

Just asked Santa for it

[deft punk]

I quite liked the wee bit that's available to sample on Amazon. The FAQ in particular tickled me :)

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'll send it your way when done. I think you'll nod a lot in places ..but he does mention the odd fire

I shall look forward to its arrival Dave, ta very much.

[rich.mike]

Does it have a lot of photos? Thinking if it'll be suitable for a Kindle.

[pistonbroke]

Thinking if it'll be suitable for a Kindle.

Surely if it mentions fires it's Kindling

[Dave Barter]

Does it have a lot of photos? Thinking if it'll be suitable for a Kindle.

Tons of them, I think it deserves to be read on paper

[RIP]

The cry goes up "we've not had a philosophical thread for a while". Not since, oh, erm, the, er, "what's our purpose" thread 10 minutes ago. Anyway, I'll stick this here 'cos the herementioned tome has prompted it. 'Tis rambling yes, but that's philosophy for you. It's more legal musings really than philosophical.

Just had an extremely productive bath time. Firstly I enjoyed my favourite Nairn’s cheese oat biscuits. Secondly I managed to extract that prickle that’s been in my thumb for a while. Thirdly I read a chunk of Wild Camping by Stephen Neale which arrived today.

Part 2 of the book lists 100 places at which it may be interesting to wildcamp. Nice to read but I can manage that bit myself I think.

Part 1 is all what Inspector Clouseau would call the “lieu”, or our rights. Some of us probably know all of what is described (apologies for your time), some none of it, and some like me who vaguely knew some of it. I’d recommend every one of us bought a copy, it’s fascinating.

If you like, as a discussion starter for 10 for fun, forgive me for highlighting some things from the book:

You probably already know about “trespassers will be prosecuted” – no they won’t and indeed cannot be. Touched on by other threads.

Only if you commit damage (such as a fire or tree breakage) can you be criminally prosecuted.

There are many places other than “Scotland” and “Dartmoor”, or even “high open-access places”, that are OK to sleep out in. You may know that you can sleep out on “Crown-owned foreshore” ie between low and high tide marks. Two problems for me: only 50% is Crown, and your dry sleeping time will perforce be, er, short. However, fascinatingly, you have a right to sleep on a vessel that has "been marooned on the foreshore while navigating a journey”, which is very handy when the tide comes in allowing you to sleep drily as long as you like, ie to bivi! So a vote for bikekayakpacking there.

It was those nasty Normans (no relation to our one!!!) in 1066 whole stole all our land, and it has stayed mostly stolen ever since (and recently nearly got even more stolen with that ludicrous proposal to privatise FC forests). Magna Carta gave us a few rights back such as the aforementioned foreshore ( < sarcasm>ooh ta so much yer lordship, touching me forelock</sarcasm> ). My opinion is the whole concept of “private land” is highly dubious, and in some cases downright scandalous – the Enclosures for example. There’s a view that public access will lay waste our open spaces. What, to make them worse than, say, monoculture heather moors with dead birds littering the place? Or sterile arable land? Fack orf mate.

Anyway, the Vagrancy Act – basically an anti-tramp-night-shelters (that’s us) Act - was modified in 1935 such that it did not include "lodging under a tent or in a cart with or within which he travels”. So, you have to be en-route not just wandering around. So us Cafe Racers were probably OK in that we had a destination, but the WRT? Yes if you had devised a destination beforehand, but not OK if just wandering around like I prefer to do. Our love of “the journey not the destination” actually puts us at a disadvantage!

Not seen in the book (yet), but I always wondered about dossing actually on a public right of way. Firstly, are you OK to sleep if you’re not blocking the way, and secondly what “structure” if any is allowed if you do sleep? Even if you doss without a structure, what’s the dividing line between a rest and a sleep? If you stick a structure up you will block a path, but what about a 6 foot bridleway? What about just OFF the bridleway in a hedge? Can the “owner” prove the middle line and therefore width of the bridleway?

The book does mention towpaths. If you buy an annual fishing ticket for much of our canals it allows you to set up a bivi and sleep, and even cook (without a “fire”), “so long as there’s room to pass”. So buy a pass, get a stick and a bit of string and away you go making sure you don't block the towpath with your bike!

Forestry Commission? That covers many of our spots. Sadly officially “no setup or placing of any structure including tent etc”. OK, is a tarp with a pole a structure? A tarp without a pole attached to a tree? A bivi bag? Conversely their website recommends and encourages building “dens” with “fallen branches” – sounds like a structure to me!

I’ll stop there cos verbatim gets boring, but I think the above are very thought provoking. Although I find the "bike" half of our pastime "fun", the "packing/biviing/tramping" bit is more interesting to me. Even if “the owner” turns up and asks you to leave (then you must unless “in an emergency”), it might be interesting to – politely – ask them to prove they are the landowner. If they can’t (show me the bit of paper), why should one even negotiate?

R

[Mbnut]

I 'think' a lot in the shower, which I like.

It seems taking a bath could elevate this 'thinking' to philosophy.

Great news about the prickle.

[RIP]

"prickle" - cheers Nige. It was winding me up out of all proportion. Thinking in the shower. Hmm, not sure, the toe-tap-twiddling is integral for me but I'm happy to give the vertical alternative a try!

[Mariner]

but the WRT?

Surly that would be back where you started?

[RIP]

Some of us never want to return at all if we can help it .

[Mariner]

Some of us never want to return at all if we can help it .

Travel far enough you meet yourself (returning?).

[macinblack]

Not seen in the book (yet), but I always wondered about dossing actually on a public right of way. Firstly, are you OK to sleep if you’re not blocking the way, and secondly what “structure” if any is allowed if you do sleep? Even if you doss without a structure, what’s the dividing line between a rest and a sleep? If you stick a structure up you will block a path, but what about a 6 foot bridleway? What about just OFF the bridleway in a hedge? Can the “owner” prove the middle line and therefore width of the bridleway?
R

Just carry a banner with the legend "Down with that sort of thing" and you are totally legal.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Here you go Reg.

http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... -eyes.html

[RIP]

Ta. I should have realised straightaway you'd have covered this somewhere already, it's basic stuff . But not simple stuff. Still, always worth another look. I like your point that just 'cos things go dark nothing else changes so why does night-time snoozing get frowned on but day-time doesn't. Your deck-chair = structure thing gave me a good laugh, but I still need to think a bit more about the difference between "sleeping" and "camping". Structures must come into it, with a tent pretty much a structure and a plastic sheet-covering not a structure. So presumably two sheets glued together - a bivi bag - isn't a structure either. Maybe it's to do with being "enclosed" (like a room) so a tarp is a bit of a hazy area. Or is it something "propped up". Hmm.

Anyroad, glad you pointed me at that cos I then read Jan 21st's bit about WRT. Sure I've not seen that. But when I try to read it some annoying "pull-out" menu thing on the right hand side always beats my cursor to the scrollbar! Had to use the mouse-scroller-thing.

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Although I find the "bike" half of our pastime "fun", the "packing/biviing/tramping" bit is more interesting to me. Even if “the owner” turns up and asks you to leave (then you must unless “in an emergency”), it might be interesting to – politely – ask them to prove they are the landowner. If they can’t (show me the bit of paper), why should one even negotiate?

Surely this comes down to rule 1? If you bivi somewhere that's clearly trespassing and are asked to 'move on', questioning the landowners authority may just illicit a 'talk to the shotgun' response!

[RIP]

Yes you're right of course ZDB, thank you for pulling me up about it. My petulance, and mounting annoyance with "private land" (& I don't mean a bit of back garden or workplace etc) got the better of me at the end there. Rule#1 is indeed applicable. In fact I'm always Captain Polite, and often end up with an interesting conversation to add to the portfolio as a result. If someone waved a shotgun at me for whatever reason I'd withdraw courteously and report them straight to the police.

[Moder-dye]

Interesting comment on one of the Scotland outdoor podcasts that in the restricted camping area of Lomond and trossacks you could legally sleep in car/campervan in a layby , but not stop on a bike and stick your tent up.

WRT to camping on a prow in england, the right is only to pass and repass or take a simple meal as far as I remember. But with all these things common sense tactics come into play to avoid obvious issues.

[Pirahna]

I got it for Christmas but have only just opened it this week, I've read Part 1 and skipped through the rest. The bloke is some sort of embittered anarchist who thinks we should have the same sort of land access that existed when 3 people occupied the entire British Isles, or have I misjudged him. The only useful tip is about using canals for a bivi, something I'd not thought of. Not a book I'd recommend.

[Dave Barter]

I got it for Christmas but have only just opened it this week, I've read Part 1 and skipped through the rest. The bloke is some sort of embittered anarchist who thinks we should have the same sort of land access that existed when 3 people occupied the entire British Isles, or have I misjudged him. The only useful tip is about using canals for a bivi, something I'd not thought of. Not a book I'd recommend.

I think you have misjudged a bit. I read him as more along our lines in that the law says “no” but interpret that as “maybe”. Did my first canal bivy last weekend, top advice and narrow boat owners very much on our wavelength.