dot watching the HT550 got me wondering....
some of these guys (and gals) are cycling through the night, and therefore need lights (or lots of carrots)
given they aren't stopping for any length of time; how do they recharge their lights?
will they be using a dynamo hub?
or a large battery that will last four overnight rides?
or multiple batteries, seems excess weight for the racer-boy (girl) type.
what am I missing?
how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. HT550
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whitestone
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Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
A mixture of approaches were in use but I can only speak for myself.
I didn't have a dynamo hub, haven't got round to building one, so went with a 20,100mAh powerbank battery, weight of 370g. This held enough juice for five full recharges of the batteries in the Garmin Oregon but the charges won't have been that complete - there will have been somewhere around 30% charge left each day.
Lights: There's not that much darkness in Scotland at this time of year, possibly five hours where you need a light depending on where you are and what's around you, trees, etc. I had an Exposure Joystick which I had selected a programme that on its lowest setting would give 36hrs of light. I only rode through on the last night and switched it to the medium setting (which would give 12hrs run time) for some of the trickier sections. By the time I finished I still had at least 50% charge left. I did have the Joystick charging lead with me in case I needed to recharge it. On the lowest setting you aren't going to be setting Strava KOM times but it's enough to ride fire roads and simple singletrack by.
Look at the HT550 reports (including my own - "A Newbie on the HT550") in the Trips and Adventures section. There's links to my blog posts about both the route and the kit which covers what I took and why.
Edit: I should say that the above approach would probably be fine for rides upto a week. After that you'd need to recharge the big battery or look at a dynamo. The problem with a dynamo is that you need to be moving fairly quickly for a decent amount of time for it to do the recharging.
I didn't have a dynamo hub, haven't got round to building one, so went with a 20,100mAh powerbank battery, weight of 370g. This held enough juice for five full recharges of the batteries in the Garmin Oregon but the charges won't have been that complete - there will have been somewhere around 30% charge left each day.
Lights: There's not that much darkness in Scotland at this time of year, possibly five hours where you need a light depending on where you are and what's around you, trees, etc. I had an Exposure Joystick which I had selected a programme that on its lowest setting would give 36hrs of light. I only rode through on the last night and switched it to the medium setting (which would give 12hrs run time) for some of the trickier sections. By the time I finished I still had at least 50% charge left. I did have the Joystick charging lead with me in case I needed to recharge it. On the lowest setting you aren't going to be setting Strava KOM times but it's enough to ride fire roads and simple singletrack by.
Look at the HT550 reports (including my own - "A Newbie on the HT550") in the Trips and Adventures section. There's links to my blog posts about both the route and the kit which covers what I took and why.
Edit: I should say that the above approach would probably be fine for rides upto a week. After that you'd need to recharge the big battery or look at a dynamo. The problem with a dynamo is that you need to be moving fairly quickly for a decent amount of time for it to do the recharging.
Last edited by whitestone on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
Thank you for the reply.whitestone wrote:A mixture of approaches were in use but I can only speak for myself.
I didn't have a dynamo hub, haven't got round to building one, so went with a 20,100mAh powerbank battery, weight of 370g. This held enough juice for five full recharges of the batteries in the Garmin Oregon but the charges won't have been that complete - there will have been somewhere around 30% charge left each day.
Lights: There's not that much darkness in Scotland at this time of year, possibly five hours where you need a light depending on where you are and what's around you, trees, etc. I had an Exposure Joystick which I had selected a programme that on its lowest setting would give 36hrs of light. I only rode through on the last night and switched it to the medium setting (which would give 12hrs run time) for some of the trickier sections. By the time I finished I still had at least 50% charge left. I did have the Joystick charging lead with me in case I needed to recharge it. On the lowest setting you aren't going to be setting Strava KOM times but it's enough to ride fire roads and simple singletrack by.
Look at the HT550 reports (including my own - "A Newbie on the HT550") in the Trips and Adventures section. There's links to my blog posts about both the route and the kit which covers what I took and why.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
I carried an Exposure Toro. I only used it for a few hours, but on a slow event like the HT550, would easily squeeze 18 hours out of the battery.
Garmin, I used lithium batteries, 3 sets for my Oregon easily got me through <8 days.
I did charge my phone once for an hour, but it has a big battery, and my policy was to keep it off except for the odd tweet or instagram.
Even if you were a fast rider you'd need some sort of fairly large cache battery dependent on your consumption tactic with a dynamo.
Garmin, I used lithium batteries, 3 sets for my Oregon easily got me through <8 days.
I did charge my phone once for an hour, but it has a big battery, and my policy was to keep it off except for the odd tweet or instagram.
Even if you were a fast rider you'd need some sort of fairly large cache battery dependent on your consumption tactic with a dynamo.
Blog - thecyclerider.com
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
Can you use Exposure lights as an emergency cache battery?
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
That's brilliant, thanks.Richpips wrote:http://www.exposurelights.com/cycle-lig ... oost-cable
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
On the HT, normally it is only truly dark from 2300 until 0315.
Powerpacks are heavy and having a bike-mounted light, however good, is a bit limiting when you stop as it's attached to the bike; when you stop, you really need a headtorch.
So I just take a Petzl headtoch that runs off 3xAAA. It's 80 lumens, which isn't very bright, but you're using it in true dark with no light pollution.
Not having to worry about power recharging and having something that doubles for on bike and off-bike seems the best solution.
It's not difficult to train yourself to ride in the dark with 80 lumens, but it's obviously best to do this alone.
Powerpacks are heavy and having a bike-mounted light, however good, is a bit limiting when you stop as it's attached to the bike; when you stop, you really need a headtorch.
So I just take a Petzl headtoch that runs off 3xAAA. It's 80 lumens, which isn't very bright, but you're using it in true dark with no light pollution.
Not having to worry about power recharging and having something that doubles for on bike and off-bike seems the best solution.
It's not difficult to train yourself to ride in the dark with 80 lumens, but it's obviously best to do this alone.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
I had a dynamo hub, a 3400 mAh cache battery and a Cycle2charge usb convertor. With this setup I was able to keep the Garmin 800 fully charged for the whole event, and for lighting had a Joystick set to the low setting (except for very short durations on high), and a Revo dynamo front light. The only bit where I found this inadequate was on the Postmans path, but speed was low on this section.
I also took a phone charging lead and joystick charging lead so if I needed to I could give either of those a boost, plus I took a mains Usb plug for the cafe stops, but didn't use it. This was a backup in case the cache battery failed like 2 years ago.
I think this setup was good for 4-5 days, then I would be looking for extra top ups. A garmin etrex with AA batteries would be an alternative so all dynamo power could go to light and phone charging.
I also took a phone charging lead and joystick charging lead so if I needed to I could give either of those a boost, plus I took a mains Usb plug for the cafe stops, but didn't use it. This was a backup in case the cache battery failed like 2 years ago.
I think this setup was good for 4-5 days, then I would be looking for extra top ups. A garmin etrex with AA batteries would be an alternative so all dynamo power could go to light and phone charging.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
I took a son hub with a revo light and a Diablo helmet light. Kept the Diablo low or off when speed was up as was planning to ride over night a lot. In the end two and two half nights worth.
Did have a cache battery but never used it. Etrex with lithium aa batteries for nav and recording.
I'd take the same again. But aim to finish next time
Did have a cache battery but never used it. Etrex with lithium aa batteries for nav and recording.
I'd take the same again. But aim to finish next time
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ZeroDarkBivi
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Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
As mentioned on Bobs HT550 report thread, I don't think a dynamo is the best answer for the HT550, when there is only 4 hours of dark a night. for the same weight (never mind drag) you can have a reliable headlight/battery or power bank combo that won't piss its pants on slow techy bits!
For example, an Exposure Diablo set up on mode 3 will, in theory, provide the following mix on a single charge (other combos are obviously possible):
Low: 45 mins of approx 400 lumens - for scary descents.
Med: 5 hrs at 120 lumens - for normal riding
Low: 6 hrs at 50 lumens - climbs & HAB
Unless you are planning to smash through the nights, that's probably enough for most peoples needs on a 5 night schedule. Add a 140g Anker 5,100 mAh power bank for at least 1 full charge, and you are definitely sorted.
For longer trips, with longer nights and riding mostly on roads, dynamo lights can be a useful thing, although I am unconvinced of their reliability, so will always take a headlight anyway.
For example, an Exposure Diablo set up on mode 3 will, in theory, provide the following mix on a single charge (other combos are obviously possible):
Low: 45 mins of approx 400 lumens - for scary descents.
Med: 5 hrs at 120 lumens - for normal riding
Low: 6 hrs at 50 lumens - climbs & HAB
Unless you are planning to smash through the nights, that's probably enough for most peoples needs on a 5 night schedule. Add a 140g Anker 5,100 mAh power bank for at least 1 full charge, and you are definitely sorted.
For longer trips, with longer nights and riding mostly on roads, dynamo lights can be a useful thing, although I am unconvinced of their reliability, so will always take a headlight anyway.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
This is something I thought a lot about before the HT550, then I got it impressively wrong.
My front light would run for 6 hours on full brightness (In hindsight, it was totally the wrong light, but the battery life was fine), my phone will run for 2 days at a push and my GPS runs on lithium AA's.
As I was planning on potentially taking the full 8 days and riding more at night than I did, I took 2 Anker 20100mah cache batteries and a 3 USB wall plug with 2 micro USB cables, a mini USB cable (emergency GPS charging) and a USB C cable with a total weight of over 1kg. In 6.5 days I never needed to charge my front light, I finished with AA batteries left over and to all intents and purposes I didn't even drain 1 of the caches fully.
If I were to do it again, I'd probably drop 1 micro USB cable, the mini USB cable, 1 of the 2 cache batteries and possibly the 3 USB wall charger in place of a small single one.
Learn from my mistakes, don't take over a kilo of charging cr*p.
My front light would run for 6 hours on full brightness (In hindsight, it was totally the wrong light, but the battery life was fine), my phone will run for 2 days at a push and my GPS runs on lithium AA's.
As I was planning on potentially taking the full 8 days and riding more at night than I did, I took 2 Anker 20100mah cache batteries and a 3 USB wall plug with 2 micro USB cables, a mini USB cable (emergency GPS charging) and a USB C cable with a total weight of over 1kg. In 6.5 days I never needed to charge my front light, I finished with AA batteries left over and to all intents and purposes I didn't even drain 1 of the caches fully.
If I were to do it again, I'd probably drop 1 micro USB cable, the mini USB cable, 1 of the 2 cache batteries and possibly the 3 USB wall charger in place of a small single one.
Learn from my mistakes, don't take over a kilo of charging cr*p.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
I did the ht550 with a revo light and dynamo + 5mah power pack and a krog helmet light. I use a garmin 800 which needs daily recharging.
Pros: you make your own power in remote areas. I'd recharge the power pack and just use that for everything else.
Cons: weight, not helpful on posty, fisherfields and hike a bikes.
At the Navad next week I'm taking an exposure joystick + 10mah Zendure power pack 200g. Felt the long climbs with extra weight that's not charging isn't helping.
Pros: lighter set up and more power to go.
Cons: may need to recharge at some point.
Pros: you make your own power in remote areas. I'd recharge the power pack and just use that for everything else.
Cons: weight, not helpful on posty, fisherfields and hike a bikes.
At the Navad next week I'm taking an exposure joystick + 10mah Zendure power pack 200g. Felt the long climbs with extra weight that's not charging isn't helping.
Pros: lighter set up and more power to go.
Cons: may need to recharge at some point.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
All very interesting guys.
When I did the Tuscany Trail (slightly different I know; however humour me) I met someone with an interesting strategy.
He had a five port USB charger and at every opportunity would charge his various packs, phone etc.
Taking that idea I have since purchased a four port Anker travel charger, and a 26800mAh pack (400g).
The pack is interesting as it has two charge inputs so can recharge at a max of 4A.
Same pack will be useful when wild camping and away from mains for one to two weeks.
Interesting the view on dynamo hubs.
When I did the Tuscany Trail (slightly different I know; however humour me) I met someone with an interesting strategy.
He had a five port USB charger and at every opportunity would charge his various packs, phone etc.
Taking that idea I have since purchased a four port Anker travel charger, and a 26800mAh pack (400g).
The pack is interesting as it has two charge inputs so can recharge at a max of 4A.
Same pack will be useful when wild camping and away from mains for one to two weeks.
Interesting the view on dynamo hubs.
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
I normally calculate battery life vs Watts to work out how much power I need to bring with me....not that I have much experience with the longer stuff - the mathematics principle still applies.
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whitestone
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Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
Assuming we all started with fully charged powerbanks or cache batteries it would have been interesting to know how much charge each of us had left at the end of the ride. My thoughts are, that like our bodies, the electrical systems were on a slow decline and there wouldn't have been much left in the tank as it were.
The formula for charging is hr = mAh / mA where "hr" is the number of hours, mAh is the capacity of the battery and mA is the output, in this case of the dynamo. So for a typical single cell 18650 eneloop battery with a capacity of 3000mAh and the output of the usual dynamo being 0.5A or 500mA, this give 6 hours that you'd have to ride at the recommended 16Kmh to get that output. For the battery I took, capacity of 20,100mAh then I'd have to ride at 16Kmh for over 40 hours! That's assuming 100% efficiency in all the circuitry.
The formula for charging is hr = mAh / mA where "hr" is the number of hours, mAh is the capacity of the battery and mA is the output, in this case of the dynamo. So for a typical single cell 18650 eneloop battery with a capacity of 3000mAh and the output of the usual dynamo being 0.5A or 500mA, this give 6 hours that you'd have to ride at the recommended 16Kmh to get that output. For the battery I took, capacity of 20,100mAh then I'd have to ride at 16Kmh for over 40 hours! That's assuming 100% efficiency in all the circuitry.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
an interesting way to look at things......
I have a smaller Anker pack (big one is at work)
the pack is 13,400mAh or 46.8Wh
working in Wh as this removes the problem with different voltages/currents of the electrical systems.
a SON dynamo hub is 3W output <<< I thought the output was higher than that
http://www.nabendynamo.de/produkte/pdf/ ... elux_e.pdf
46.8 / 3 = 15.6hrs
hmmm, I am starting to see the pointlessness of a dynamo hub.
______
new pack I have bought is 26,800mAh, so will guess that the capacity is also doubled to 93.6Wh
93.6 / 3 = 31.2hrs
======
realistically of course one would be putting back the charge during the day that was taken out during the evening (as these packs don't support pass through charging)
I have a smaller Anker pack (big one is at work)
the pack is 13,400mAh or 46.8Wh
working in Wh as this removes the problem with different voltages/currents of the electrical systems.
a SON dynamo hub is 3W output <<< I thought the output was higher than that
http://www.nabendynamo.de/produkte/pdf/ ... elux_e.pdf
46.8 / 3 = 15.6hrs
hmmm, I am starting to see the pointlessness of a dynamo hub.
______
new pack I have bought is 26,800mAh, so will guess that the capacity is also doubled to 93.6Wh
93.6 / 3 = 31.2hrs
======
realistically of course one would be putting back the charge during the day that was taken out during the evening (as these packs don't support pass through charging)
Re: how to recharge light batteries on multiday ride, e.g. H
For the HT550 I took an exposure diablo, and a 3 cell piggy back battery for it.
Etrex with lithiums for nav.
10,000 mAh battery pack for inefficient iphone, and a USB cable that meant I could direct run the GPS/backup GPS/charge the lights etc.
As I was very lazy and finished in 5 1/2 days, I only used the diablo for about 30 mins on day 1. Never used it again! I used the battery pack to charge the phone twice. Replaced the GPS batteries once (they weren't new when I started). I think I'd have had enough power in this set up to ride through the night every night for the HT550. Unfortunately the power in my legs didn't match up!
Etrex with lithiums for nav.
10,000 mAh battery pack for inefficient iphone, and a USB cable that meant I could direct run the GPS/backup GPS/charge the lights etc.
As I was very lazy and finished in 5 1/2 days, I only used the diablo for about 30 mins on day 1. Never used it again! I used the battery pack to charge the phone twice. Replaced the GPS batteries once (they weren't new when I started). I think I'd have had enough power in this set up to ride through the night every night for the HT550. Unfortunately the power in my legs didn't match up!