Hello! First time bikepacker - probably stupid questions ahead

[johncc]

Hi!

I'm a fairly keen road and cross-country off road cyclist and I've done some camping and wild camping. My 14yo son is also really into wild camping through scouts. I've often talked about bike packing but my wife bought me Laurence McJanner's book and my son now really has the bit between his teeth and wants to set off on a trip over Easter weekend. This is great, because it gives me the kick up the backside I need to try it out!

We're going to do route #1 in the book - Tisbury to Longleat - since it's near home and I vaguely know the areas (although I've never ridden there). Seems like a fairly gentle intro.

The big question in my mind at the moment is bivvying. This is what we want to do, but I'm unsure about whether you should try to ask the landowner for permission and how you'd even find one if you wanted to. The book recommends a couple of spots which both seems like copses so not "obviously private". They may even be open access land (which I know doesn't grant camping rights).

The author also mentions having a campfire there which would be nice, but most wild camping guides say don't make a fire .. so do you think he just chanced it anyway?

Any other tips you wished you'd known on your first outing much appreciated. I don't want to be "all the gear and no idea" so we're trying not to go crazy on buying special kit. If it becomes a regular thing or we want to do more challenging trips that would be different.

We'll probably take 2 bivvy bags, one 3x3 tarp, sleeping bags and rollmats. We have a mix of proper bikepacking bags, general drybags, velcro straps galore and insulating tape to tie stuff to frames.

For food I could borrow one of the little hexi burners .. are those a good choice? Looks like more people use meths.

Thanks in advance!

[RIP]

Not stupid questions at all - but sounds like you've made some good calls already : trying a local one first while you're getting to grips with things, lots of velcro, big tarp for shelter etc. 'Wish you'd known on first trip' - lay everything out on the floor, put stuff you don't really need back in the cupboard, have a cuppa, come back and put more stuff in the cupboard, hopefully you'll only have left what you 'need'. Having said that you've got your lad with you (good for him!) who needs to feel happy / cared for. Then again the less stuff HE has the more satisfaction he might obtain. If the weather's nice you may decide you don't need bivvy bags AND tarp. It's a cliche but if he can leave behind all of his electronics a whole new world will open up. Oh, and don't overplan - half the fun is just seeing what happens and following your nose ( and ears and eyes... ).

'Ask the landowner' - good idea but unlikely. If asked to move on later, politely do so. But that's unlikely too (although see 'copse' below ). Arrive late leave early. You're not breaking any laws unless you damage anything. 'copse' - beware gamekeepers at 5am!

McJannet - he does like his fires does our Laurie. But does that 'leave no trace'? Possibly Rule#2 that is in This Place. Any small stove is fine - hexi etc, then you can treat yourself to a BBB 8g stove from the Shop for next time :). But beware that once you start getting interested in weight/stuff reduction it can become obsessive - check out the 'lightweight shelters' or 'packed bike weight' threads

Stand by for loads of alternative views coming up next and take your pick .

Oh, and 'welcome' :) .

PS. donate McJannet to an interested pal and have a look at Stephen Neale instead...

[lune ranger]

'Ask the landowner' - good idea but unlikely. If asked to move on later, politely do so. But that's unlikely too. Arrive late leave early. You're not breaking any laws unless you damage anything. 'copse' - beware gamekeepers

I'd echo all of the above really. Especially the no fires bit. Without permission and without need you could get yourself into trouble and spoil things for those who go after you.
Hope you and your son enjoy it!

[lune ranger]

Also please consider what to do about crapping in the wild
Wild camping and leaving behind a toilet isn't cool
Carry a small trowel and/or be prepared to scrape out a little hole in order to 'drop off some friends at the pool' in the woods. Burn and bury the loo roll with your pile.
Some would advocate carrying out your turds in a plastic bag but that's maybe not necessary in the uk imo.
If we want to carry on 'getting away' with rough camping which is not a right in most areas of England and Wales (not all of Scotland either) we need to leave as little trace of our passing as possible. In fact, even in areas where we have the right to camp freely (most of Dartmoor, most of Scotland) we need to do the same.

[whitestone]

Generally for bivvying: arrive late and leave early. Also try and find somewhere where you can't see the lights of houses: if you can't see them then it's likely they can't see you.

The countryside is very dark at night so any light sticks out like a sore thumb and most country folk know where the lights from their neighbours should be so if a new one appears then it needs investigating. That's the second good reason not to have a fire

As Lune Ranger says being responsible means we can carry on being irresponsible I'll go so far as to scuff up the grass we've been lying on so there's even less indication of us being there.

[AlasdairMc]

I’ll echo what everyone says about the fire point. It’s just not worth it. You can do a lot with a stove, and part of the fun is moving away from a spot the following morning without there being any sign of you having been there.

For your first trip, don’t bother with bikepacking bags unless you can borrow them - it’s worth waiting to see if you’ll do it again.

In terms of picking your spot, you can blend into your surroundings really quickly with experience. Hidden behind a fallen tree maybe ten feet from a trail is definitely possible, so you’ll easily find something - just watch for early morning walkers and inquisitive dogs! Just watch out for low spots that could flood if it rains, or drainage channels that might form during the night.

There’s also the possibility of simply being brazen. Many of us will have kipped under shelters, so think picnic grounds in country parks etc. Arrive late, leave early, and people will be none the wiser. It’s amazing how quickly things quieten down at night in the countryside.

[johncc]

A belated thanks to everyone for the great advice! I posted this question before heading off on holiday with the family, because I knew I was going straight into this bikepacking trip when we got back and wanted to plan ahead a bit. That's why I've not had a chance to respond yet!

We're setting off tomorrow and I think we're all set, or close enough anyway. I'm planning on skipping the sleeping bags since it's so mild at the moment and just using an army bivvy bag + fleece liner + roll mat. Should be warm enough, right?

I'll follow up with how it went in a couple of days.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm planning on skipping the sleeping bags since it's so mild at the moment and just using an army bivvy bag + fleece liner + roll mat. Should be warm enough, right?

That's a brave move at this time of year ... it's less mild than you think at 3am when you're lay on the floor. Even in the height of summer I'd still take a very light sleeping bag or quilt.

[benp1]

I'd definitely be using sleeping bag. No point having a cold sleep on your first time out. The army bivvy bag is good but it's not warm, just very waterproof and very heavy

[lune ranger]

^^ What they said... unless your liner is very thick or you are massively hard

[psling]

Your lad may lose his desire to do it again if he spends the early hours shivering rather than sleeping! The temperature in my neck of the woods (not too far from you) dropped enough this morning for a fairly heavy dew. If you're bivvying in a dip in the land then temperatures could still drop well into single figures at the moment despite the glorious days.
I was out Wednesday and was glad of my sleep mat and sleeping bag. Didn't take a tarp though as no rain was likely.
Anyway, have fun and enjoy it (and enjoying it will probably mean using sleeping bags!).

EDIT: checked my max/min garden thermometer - temp dropped to about 4.5° C this morning.

[Kumquat]

Hi
Agree with everything up to now.
Don't leave your sleeping bag at home.
You may not need a tarp or tent.
You do need a bag.
Don't breathe into your sleeping bag.
Eat a banana or something if you wake up cold during the night.
Take a hat.

[Lazarus]

what they say

In warm weather,certain of no rain, i would leave the shelter before the bag
a cold nights sleep [ or your air bed deflating*] are definitely the worst and longest nights.
* thankfully not winter

[johncc]

Well, I decided to take my bag because the older I get, the more I hate getting cold. The lad decided that he wanted to use the liner only. Since he sleeps out a lot, I decided to let him try it. He insists that he was warm enough all night, while I was a bit cold around dawn. Go figure! Probably an age thing - he often hammocks out in -3C and even with his old crappy sleeping bag he never seemed to get cold.

Totally agree on the necessity of a good hat, and I can confirm that a deflating air mat will lead to the worst night's sleep ever. Been there, done that, hope never to do it again.

I wanted to thank everyone for the help and advice. We completed the ride today, and had an amazing time with no drama or mishap. I think he struggled more than he thought he would on some of the climbs on day 2, but that's part of the of fun of feeling like you've really pushed yourself.

Anyway, he's already talking about the next trip so he must have enjoyed it. I definitely did.