1000mile Plus Route discussions

Questions and answers about routes.

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FLV
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1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by FLV »

Maybe we can discuss general long distance routes and related stuff in here?

Apologies if this is in the wrong place.

I've been musing over a few specific very long (for me) routes recently (entirely possibly this is part of a mid life crisis of course) and was wondering what sort of training people do.

I know enough about my bike, and kit and how all that works.

I've done circa 500km rides over several days and find that you go a bit further than you thought, in a day generally. I've never done anything 1000km or bigger, but I think I would like to. I guess my question is, do those of you who have done the divide, or I guess Atlas and similar train specifically for that event or do you just maintain a high level of general bike fitness then turn up and try to spend as much time staying out of the red zone to avoid blowing up?

There's also the question over race or ride but that's a fine line for me, I am not even a mid pack rider so for me it doesn't actually matter. Race or Ride, its all about the personal challenge of completing the route, position is unimportant. This would probably dictate that I shouldn't enter races but if that was the case we'd all just watch 5 or 6 fast folk ITT'ing everything.

Any thoughts?
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In Reverse
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by In Reverse »

Have you done a LEJoG/JoGLE Dave?
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by robbie »

I've never done that distance. But I would say if you can do 500km then you are fit enough to do 1000km. As you say just stay out of the red zone.
For me it would be the mental game that stopped me. Also need to stay comfortable and look after your body a bit more to stop that niggle turning into a bigger problem. Maybe ride slightly shorter day and eat well in the evening to help recovery if not racing.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by stevewaters »

Possibly a personal thing, but I notice my hands/fingers getting numb after a couple of days. I first had this on the HT550 and it came as a shock. I have since done a lot with the handlebars to improve things (raise them and get more position options with inside bar ends and togs) but I still notice it coming on but much less severely now.

- So the "cockpit" set-up would be something I would need to think carefully about for 1,000+ mile routes. - Possibly even TT-style support to forearms.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by ScotRoutes »

I've only done one such ride, a Lejog. It was 10 x 100 mile days. It was fully supported so all I really had to do was ride. I think there's a choice to be made between riding fast/hard each day and having a good long recovery time, or riding slower/easier but having less "overnight" time. Of course, if you have no pressure of time then that won't apply.

Oh, forgot to add... I followed up my Lejog by doing a "credit card" tour of North Scotland 3 days later. By the end of that I was having trouble getting up and down stairs in the mornings but could have cycled all day. My mate was done in trying to keep to our schedule while I breezed through it.
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FLV
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by FLV »

In Reverse wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:19 pm Have you done a LEJoG/JoGLE Dave?
No, maybe I should
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

RE prep, a bit of a shift in intensity in your current riding (polarised, lots of low with some very high intensity) could get you a lot of the benefits of a training plan. Just a matter of understanding the basics. A winter of good base miles and some specific interval work will raise your all-day pace to a level above that. I tend to do the former to some extent having followed more structured training plans and seen how I react to it, but tbh I need a specific aim to get me into the turbo for a plan/block of 12 weeks. And much less than that perhaps isn't worth it.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by Richpips »

My thoughts Dave revolve around "staying out of trouble".

We've done a few big rides off of no training. The first three days are key. Over do it, or not addressing a niggle will be the beginning of the end. I reckon if you get through the first week, then just repeat what you are doing. Maybe pushing the distance or the time on the bike a little. I think comfort on a long trip is more important than an obsession with weight.

Like Steve I've had issues with my hands. I reckon it took 4 months for normal transmission to be resumed after the TD.

I'm currently trialling a non aero tri bar setup.

I've got a 10,000 mile ride I'm planning for when it's safe to do so.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by johnnystorm »

Before the TD I followed a trainerroad plan and did a century ride at the weekends where possible.

While the last 18 months haven't been so productive for me I found that doing a 200k Audax at least once a month kept me "topped up".
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

The first three days are key.
i always remember Aidan telling me 'survive the first five days'. Meaning that if you can make it through those first days, then chances are you'll make it through anything afterwards.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by whitestone »

When Cath did LeJoG she followed the CTC route and schedule which was two longish days followed by a shorter day and repeat. The long days were a couple of hours' riding, café stop, a couple of hours riding, lunch stop, a couple of hours riding, another café stop then ride to the evening's accommodation (and more food!). So pretty steady, well apart from the storm as she crossed southern Scotland that caused all of Scotrail's services to be cancelled!

Training wise - just ride your bike, maybe a few efforts to simulate those short sharp climbs you get here and there. I think it was Mike Hall who said that once you know you can ride long distances there's no need to regularly do them in training. Much of longer rides is a mental thing and in a way not looking at the overall picture: "I've been riding three days and I've only got this far!"
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by ScotRoutes »

"I've been riding three days and I've only got this far!"
That's certainly a problem with LEJOG. It seems like forever to get to Bristol and the turn Northwards.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

..once you know you can ride long distances there's no need to regularly do them in training. Much of longer rides is a mental thing
I think that's right - all the long or harder rides do is need recovery with little (no?) fitness gains. 6-7hrs at base-pace might be the longest ride you'd actually need to do, assuming you already know how you react to longer and back-to-back days. Not sure if there's any evidence that more than that has any benefit. Yet I do notice some feeling of gains after a block of maybe 3-4 hard days if I can get home for good food and sleep afterwards. 'Feelings of' that is - rather than performance-evidenced.

I certainly value the longer rides since the more of them I do the less they feel like long rides, they're just rides. There's an adjustment phase whenever I've spent a while not doing them. Psychologically, 100 mile base-pace rides made me see how 100 miles isn't that far really. 100 miles just hurts if you don't pace it well and think it's a sportive-race all the way.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Perhaps, it's the longer rides that increase your mental rather than physical performance?
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:25 am Perhaps, it's the longer rides that increase your mental rather than physical performance?
Both, potentially.

I think there's something in the base-build thing. Disciplined or rev-limited long rides taught me about pace and made them seem less challenging. But it's the build phase (the HI work) that's needed if you want to go a bit quicker. You have a reference point for those long base mile rides and then, after a period of HI work, you're covering those base mile distances faster at the same effort level. I'm not sure how it'd work if someone did only the HI work - I suspect the capacity for raising the base pace might not be as great and the experience of the longer ride pace wouldn't have been established?

This is why I think riders who do long rides can do long distance races w/o training, they're used to the pace and have the core experience. But it's the riders who do the HI build phase training on top of the long rides who cruise faster and prob place higher. Since whatever fitness level you have, if your riding doesn't have structure (ie based around going faster in the end, say 6-12mth time) then you will have the capacity to be faster by structuring it. Whether that's worth the faff or you GAS is another matter : )

Where's Greg, he's a sports scientist I think? The base thing seems to have some debate around it, vs 'sweet spot' training etc. I'm not sure how those debates apply to real long distances, multi-day etc.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by FLV »

All very interesting stuff, thanks for getting involved everyone :grin:

I find it fascinating that some folk seem to to generally less riding than me but seem to be able to show up and ride so much further and faster than I can. I have generally put it down to base fitness, especially in the last year or two as I am still clawing my way back from a poor state of fitness, to the point where I feel 'ok' now riding every day.

I probably need to factor in 'recovery' but sometime I only pop out for 10km for some fresh air so thats got to be ok for me whilst not actually improving my fitness. I could very likely replace a couple of shorter rides with one or two much longer ones. My general longest ride per week is usually 55 to 75km (its quite hilly) so I guess a solid start would be to start upping this to hit the 100 mark regularly.

Or, to avoid turning into a road based mile chaser (not something I really want to do) focus on the time instead.

I could actually read some science behind it, but where would the fun in that be!
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Sorry if this has already been mentioned Dave but have you tried throwing some short sharp reps in? Some years ago, I took to doing some hill reps on the climb out of the forest. It's a fairly long climb but I'd do it 3 times on a SS at what felt like a hard effort. Fitness increased massively in quite a short space of time.
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by In Reverse »

FLV wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:17 pm I find it fascinating that some folk seem to to generally less riding than me but seem to be able to show up and ride so much further and faster than I can. I have generally put it down to base fitness, especially in the last year or two as I am still clawing my way back from a poor state of fitness, to the point where I feel 'ok' now riding every day.
Do you actually find yourself struggling on long rides Dave? You do get some decent lengths in*.

I'd have thought that with the amount of riding you do, particularly with all the climbing, you'd be more than able to chug along at a steady pace pretty much ad infinitum.

*
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by FLV »

In Reverse wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:40 pm
Do you actually find yourself struggling on long rides Dave? You do get some decent lengths in*.

I'd have thought that with the amount of riding you do, particularly with all the climbing, you'd be more than able to chug along at a steady pace pretty much ad infinitum.
Not really tried to do so, I've done a couple of days recently. My mileage this year is massively different to previous years so I am on newish ground. I've done a 600km route back in 2013 ish, since then my longest trip since then was last years Tuscany Trail at 550km or whatever.

If I was to set out on 500km I would be thinking it would be ok, double that I dont know. I am not particularly worried about it, but was certainly keen to hear from those who have done them.

You seem to be able to push out massive rides at will, and at a pace, which is annoying :lol:
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

FLV wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:29 pm You seem to be able to push out massive rides at will, and at a pace, which is annoying :lol:
Favourable power to weight ratio and the power they can generate at aerobic levels of effort. That's almost all it is for those annoying types : ) I think the rest is about staying comfortable and actually wanting to do it and stay out there?
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Favourable power to weight ratio
Have you met Andy?
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by In Reverse »

Oi!

It's possible that I might have a favourable power to weight ratio. Image I'd just need to be very, very powerful...
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:27 pm
Favourable power to weight ratio
Have you met Andy?
Yeah I think so briefly, Star, 2017 WRT? From what I remember he looked powerful enough that I wouldn't call him fat :grin:

(edit, ie, even if he was, which I don't remember him being, er I hope that comes across as intended!)
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by In Reverse »

jameso wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:30 pm
Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:27 pm
Favourable power to weight ratio
Have you met Andy?
Yeah I think so briefly, Star, 2017 WRT? From what I remember he looked powerful enough that I wouldn't call him fat :grin:

(edit, ie, even if he was, which I don't remember him being, er I hope that comes across as intended!)
Think it was James, aye. Oddly enough (or not) we were discussing fitness for very long rides.

edit - I'm just big boned. :cool:
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Re: 1000mile Plus Route discussions

Post by jameso »

^ oh dear, am I a 3 year stuck record? :lol:
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