Something for the coffee snobs.

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oreocereus
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:41 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:32 pm
My post-CV19 business idea is to hand deliver water from Loch Einich to that there London. Cycling all the way of course. I reckon at around £1,000 per litre I can make a go of it as there will be enough "discerning customers" . I will then start a franchise, retire to North Uist and put my feet up.
Well, acqua di cristallo tributo a modigliani costs $60,000/750mL so you could be quite market yourself as the everyman's luxury water ;)

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atk
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by atk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:05 am

Rather than open up a new thread... has anyone got an MSR Pocket Rocket 2 (or similar compact stove) and checked if it would fit inside the plunger of an AeroPress Go?
Last edited by atk on Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:14 am

atk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:05 am
Rather than open up a new thread... has anyone got a newer MSR Pocket Rocket (or similar compact stove) and checked if it would fit inside the plunger of an AeroPress Go?
I have an MSR PR purchased in 2018 or somethibg and a mate has an Aeropress somethin.... If its the GO then I could see about getting it to mine (non touch technique obviously) and having a go for you...

[Edit] Go is smaller than his so can't test.. soz

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sean_iow
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:13 pm

I've got a Aeropress Go and I also have an original pocket rocket so I can try that when I get home. I've also got a small primus gas stove and the alpkit one so I'll test all 3. I can also measure the inside diameter of the plunger.

I've not been more than a couple of miles from my house in weeks but today I had to go to the mainland for some survey work at a water supply works near Pulborough. The journey over on the ferry was strange, only us and a lifeboat on the solent. Normally on a sunny Friday morning there'd be loads of small yachts and other pleasure craft out.
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atk
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by atk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:33 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:13 pm
I've got a Aeropress Go and I also have an original pocket rocket so I can try that when I get home. I've also got a small primus gas stove and the alpkit one so I'll test all 3. I can also measure the inside diameter of the plunger.
That'd be great! I can measure internal diameter but was struggling with some of the measurements for stoves :)

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sean_iow
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:17 pm

The original Pocket Rocket doesn't fit, but I see on the 2 the pot supports fold differently so that might?

The Alpkit fitted easily, in its bag with enough room left over for the stirrer.

The primus, which I once thought was a small stove had no chance.
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by RIP » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:27 pm

Amazed you lot have so far managed to get 3 pages out of some brown powder mixed with hot water :wink: .

Still, I can't talk: I'm perfectly happy to read 192 pages about tea and biscuits :grin:

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:24 am

RIP wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:27 pm
Amazed you lot have so far managed to get 3 pages out of some brown powder mixed with hot water :wink: .
I'm waiting for a parcel and then I think we'll manage at least another page :wink:
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atk
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by atk » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:35 am

sean_iow wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:17 pm
The original Pocket Rocket doesn't fit, but I see on the 2 the pot supports fold differently so that might?

The Alpkit fitted easily, in its bag with enough room left over for the stirrer.

The primus, which I once thought was a small stove had no chance.
Thanks for checking :-bd

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atk
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by atk » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:50 pm

atk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:05 am
Rather than open up a new thread... has anyone got an MSR Pocket Rocket 2 (or similar compact stove) and checked if it would fit inside the plunger of an AeroPress Go?
To self-answer, it turns out the Pocket Rocket 2 does fit inside the plunger of an Aeropress Go with room to spare!

This has been confirmed in video format by a border terrier/mime double act :-bd

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:49 am

It's here :grin:

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The lock-down has brought about a profound change in the pace of my bivis. Previously there's many a bivi where I didn't even take a stove to save time I'm now going to grind my coffee beans in the morning to make sure they are fresh :smile:
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K1100T
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by K1100T » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:48 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:49 am
It's here :grin:

The lock-down has brought about a profound change in the pace of my bivis. Previously there's many a bivi where I didn't even take a stove to save time I'm now going to grind my coffee beans in the morning to make sure they are fresh :smile:
Didn't know they did a small one!Used my normal sized Porlex three times this morning. Could've used the Baratza, but there's something quite meditative grinding by hand...
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oreocereus
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:41 pm

I enjoy grinding by hand, and for two people it's no bother.

I use a Made By Knock Aerspeed. It's £80 and made by a small (one man?) company up in Edinburgh. The quality is remarkably high - you need to spend upward of £150 to see any notable improvement. Very good particle consistency (not outstanding, but better than it has any right to be, and good enough for 99% of home users - you'd need to have some serious time, knowledge and finances invested in a coffee set up to justify needing something better).

How do you find the Porlex to grind with? A friend told me it was a bit of a chore, but the MBK is a breeze and I don't have first hand experience with the Porlex.

The MBK fits inside the aeropress plunger (hence the name, Aerspeed), but it's not light at 410g. It feels a lot nicer to handle and touch than the Porlex (which is fine, but is definitely part of how they keep the price down). I imagine the Porlex is at least 100g lighter?

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by K1100T » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:41 pm

oreocereus wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:41 pm
How do you find the Porlex to grind with?
My main gripe with the Porlex, is the handle is made of cheese and the fit becomes loose and wobbly over time. This results, if you're not paying attention, in the handle flying across the room at inconvenient moments. It might just be my wonky grinding action that does it, but this is the second Porlex I've had and they've both done it. Other than that, it's great.
Last edited by K1100T on Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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sean_iow
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:46 pm

I've just weighed the Porlex and it's 242g on my scales. It takes me about a minute to grind enough beans for a single cup which isn't too long. I bought it on a whim really to cheer myself up in these strange times, plus it means I can buy beans instead of pre-ground so my coffee is fresher. There's something relaxing about stopping work (at home) at 10:00 and making a coffee :smile:

I've only used it twice, I limit myself to 1 cup a day and it only arrived yesterday. I used a slightly finer grind today and I think it's about right for the aeropress now, as far as I could tell it made as good a cup as when I used bought ground coffee.

I'm really pleased with the Porlex, especially for the price. It feels well made and fits together nicely. I've never had another grinder so I've noting to compare it to though. I actually fits in the Aeropress Go but is taller than the plunger plus you'd still have to carry the handle so there's no real benefit to putting it inside. I will use the space inside for my stirrer and carrying beans.

I've just looked up the Made By Knock and it's shown as £120 incl VAT on the website so more than twice what I paid for the Porlex. Not sure that's a fair comparison, it's like me saying my Titanium Salsa is better than a Carrera :lol:
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oreocereus
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:44 pm

The MadeByKnock Aerspeed is £75, though I don't think that price includes VAT (it's an office/work expense!)

You may be looking at the Feld, which is their upper-end grinder. It has a bigger chamber, bigger burr set and bigger crank arm - basically it's made for brewing coffee for more than 2 people, and living in a kitchen rather than being a travel companion.

I haven't personally done a side by side, but generally the comparisons is that the Porlex is leaps ahead of it's competitors, and for not a huge amount more the Aerspeed is leaps ahead of the Porlex - and then there are really only small improvements to be had for large investments. Both are good grinders, and the porlex seems more sensible for a weight concious decision. I went with the MBK because I've only bothered taking some kind of coffee brewing method on one trip in the last 4 years, and I brew coffee everyday at home, so the weight was less important to me.

Your grind speeds will likely get a lot easier with the Porlex :)

The MBK was a bit of a chore to grind at first, but now 17grams of beans takes me about 20 seconds I think? I'll time it tomorrow. Coarser grind sizes are faster of course.

The reason for that is burrs take a little to run smoothly, and they actually get better after a little use because they are very sharp when factory new, which creates a lot more "fines" (dusty bits of coffee which are much finer than the grind size you're trying to produce - this increases sediment, and creates uneven extraction). So your grind quality will become more consistent too - basically in a week or so you'll have an easier time grinding coffee and get better coffee from it! I put 100g of rice through my grinder when it arrived, and I was worried about how much work it was to grind - but now it's very smooth and easy.

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm

I'd seen the MBK in a review, it's got the cool external adjuster on the top? This one?

http://www.madebyknock.com/store/p52/Aergrind.html

You got yours at a bargain price as it's definitely £120 now.

I'll have to time my grind accurately tomorrow and keep a chart :geek:
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oreocereus
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:27 pm

http://www.madebyknock.com/store/p50/Aerspeed.html

The Aerspeed actually. I got mine for £75 at an event in London, which is how much he's selling them for before VAT. So £90 (unless it's a business expense ;) )

It's more suitable for most types of home brewing coffee - essentially its very similar to the Aergrind, but the burrs are calibrated more toward filter coffee, with deeper cuts in the burrs themselves (which also means a faster grind time - hence the name). What this means is that it has more adjustment throw (ie is easier to adjust) within the kind of grind sizes used for filter-like sizes - pour overs, french presses and that ilk.

The Aergrind should be a bit better toward the espresso end of things (but - it's really not going to be a great espresso grinder, even though it's technically capable of producing an espresso grind - it'll be very tough to dial the fine grind size adjustments needed). The aerspeed works well with my aeropress, but I know some prefer a very fine grind that's closer to espresso than french press on their aeropress - so possible the aergrind would be better in those cases. Basically the aergrind is a slightly "better" grinder, because the burrs aren't cut as deeply, which produces less fines, yet it might be
a little tougher to adjust to the ideal grind size - but for home brewing, those differences can be theoretical rather than observable (I haven't done a test, of course!)

The aerspeed uses the same housing as the more expensive aergrind, but apparently they assemble the aerspeed with the "less cosmetically appealing" housing parts to keep it's cost down. Aside from the different burr cut profile, the burrs also aren't treated the same, and may not last as long as the Aergrind burrs (again, keeps costs down). But Peter told me the Aerspeed should do at least 200kg before one needs to think about replacing the burr set on the Aerspeed..

To be honest I couldn't understand why they had both the Aerspeed and Aergrind in their line up - there seemed to be too much overlap between the two products.






That was probably a lot more information than anyone wanted.

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:59 pm

oreocereus wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:27 pm
To be honest I couldn't understand why they had both the Aerspeed and Aergrind in their line up - there seemed to be too much overlap between the two products.
And why they gave them such similar names that I didn't know which was which :oops:
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oreocereus
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:05 pm

Yeah confusing naming conventions. Based on their website and wordy and somewhat unclear product descriptions, marketing isn’t their forte. But they’ve carved out a little popular niche in the coffee world by making a good product in the UK at a pretty affordable price (again, you need to nearly double the price before there are more expensive models that could be considered upgrades - with quickly diminishing returns).

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Fri May 01, 2020 12:32 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm
I'll have to time my grind accurately tomorrow and keep a chart :geek:
22seconds for the aerspeed. From your description I do a coarser grind than you though. And I was trying to grind quickly.

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by sean_iow » Sat May 02, 2020 10:30 am

1 scoop of beans, which weighed 13g, took 50 seconds. I wasn't particularly rushing.

What I find most fascinating is that a scoop of beans is a scoop of ground when done. There must be some mathematical relationship that keeps the volume the same for a given weight regardless of individual partical size as long as the particals are all the same size. The beans have bigger gaps between them but there are fewer of them. The grounds fit together closer but there are more of them.

If the lock-down continues I might look into that... but it will need to continue for some time before I'm that desperate for mental stimulus :smile:

I could text the problem to the old engineer I used to work with as he loves maths. I once asked him what he's do if he won the lottery, he said he go to university and do a maths degree. As he was in his 60s at the time I assume it wasn't for the drinking and parties either.
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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by benp1 » Sat May 02, 2020 1:48 pm

I don't get that either

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by thenorthwind » Mon May 04, 2020 6:39 am

How are you guys grinding so quickly? I was curious to compare so timed myself by grinding two lots of 18g in my Hario Skeleton this morning. First was about 2:40 not really rushing, and second was just over 2 minutes trying to be a bit quicker.

I am grinding quite fine - for Aeropress, but it's probably what you would call an espresso grind (it's the only way I can get a reasonably consistent grind out of this grinder), but I don't remember it being much quicker on a coarser setting.

It's had a few years of daily use so perhaps the burrs are a bit worn, but I don't remember it ever being much quicker.

I have a Hario Mini Mill which is smaller, but perversely does seem quicker, but still nowhere near 20s. What am I missing?

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Re: Something for the coffee snobs.

Post by oreocereus » Mon May 04, 2020 1:59 pm

Higher end grinders use higher quality burrs which are generally a lot faster and may have a better/smoother/less resistance in the cranking of the arm. The arm of the aerspeed spins freely and easily when there’s nothing in (like spinning the cranks on a bike backward with well greased and cared for bearings :p )

Cheaper grinds may also be using conical burrs which are slower than flat burrs (and generally, but not always, less consistent with grind sizes).

I had used a friends amazon-something grinder which was an absolutely hard work. Maybe 2+ minutes.

Less down to quality of parts, but larger burr sets will also be faster as there’s a lot more contact area. People who hand grind a lot of coffee often have very big handgrinders (to the point you’re not saving much space in the kitchen! But a €200 hand grinder will be a better grinder than a €400 electric grinder).

I’m unsure if you’re hario burrs would wear down that quickly - high quality burr sets will do at least 200kg as a conservative estimate, though many are rated for more than 500kg.

I don’t know anything about the hario burrs, but they may be made of a different composition or have different treatment or coatings to achieve a more accessible price point.

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