BB200

[fatbikephil]

Its one of the greyer parts of the 'rules'. On many group starts I've done, I've followed other's tyre tracks to make turns and checked them on the GPS after without stopping. Much quicker than fathoming them out yourself if there are multiple lines all close together (Hopton woods?!) If I was doing an ITT I'd have to work it out for myself. The fact that three people preceded me over the Kerry Ridgeline trail made it much easier to ride through the grass, and stay on line. I'd also say that trying to follow someone else in the dark through multiple turns is harder than following a GPS line....

Its all about being sporting I reckon

Reg; where's your can of worms?

[lune ranger]

How is the ethos of self- sufficiency remaining intact if a rider had way to navigate the route and has the absolute need to be led by another rider in order to finish? Take the ‘guide’ rider away and the rider with no nav can’t finish. No?

In this instance I see it as Bob got lucky in that another rider came along when they did and invited him to tag on. I suppose that if we follow everything to the letter, then yes, without the other rider he probably wouldn't have been able to continue. Would it have been better had he followed someone from a discreet distance and said nothing? I recall that Dave gave a fellow rider his spare gps on the TD after they lost theirs - different or the same?

In my mind, it would be a completely different matter if someone set off without a gps but with another rider who they were reliant upon from the moment they set off.

I might be wrong but I'd make the same call again for anyone.

No, it wouldn’t have been better to follow someone and not say so. Bob had been open about this from the start and reported himself. This isn’t a campaign to get him eliminated!

In the case of Dave and the GPS, I’d say that was very generous of him and well done. I also think that in some events that would have earned them both a DNF.

I totally agree that setting off and following someone else is a very different scenario to Bob’s. What do we think of folk who ride as a group from start to finish? Is that self-reliance even if they share no gear?

Anyway. Your decision Stu and ultimately it really doesn’t matter. However, I just can’t square it off with being self-supported.

[Richard G]

Aren't you technically making use of a service that all other riders could also be using at that point?

I think people can get obsessive about this sh*t. Go too far down that road and you could argue to DNF anyone that didn't open and close their own gates. It's not a race, there are no prizes, and you still need to be fit enough / mentally strong enough to get around.

Not my event, not my rules, but in my eyes if as long as you turned up to the event with all the required gear then if something fails whilst you're out, then it's only sensible to use whatever options are around you to continue. That might be borrowing a pump, a tube, a battery or just following others (and yes, I still think that counts as a legit completion).

The challenge shouldn't come down to how lucky you were with your gear. As always in these parts... don't take the piss / don't be a dick.

[lune ranger]

How lucky you were with gear, or how well you prepared your gear? Did you check your spare batteries? Did you carry an alternate means of navigating?

[Richard G]

Everything has a limit, and eventually that comes down to luck...

...and that's coming from someone that preps excessively, including doing full test rides and has backup navigation options. I can assure you if I was faced with a choice between my backup navigation option and following someone, I know what I'd be doing (and I imagine had Bob not found someone then he'd likely have tried to grab some different batteries anyway).

I wouldn't have even mentioned it at the end, not least because I've lost count of the number of miles on BB200s where I've not bothered checking my navigation because I could see others.

[ScotRoutes]

Sorry I mentioned it now. I was just comparing it to some similar occurrences on the HT550 and was genuinely curious as to whether the same rules applied. Richard has a point - if you can see someone else and you follow them.....

[thenorthwind]

I think we're all sensible enough here not to worry too much about the rules beyond

don't be a dick.

but FWIW, I think if you're going to take the really hard stance on this, then "self-supported" and "group start" become an oxymoron when put together.

[Bearbonesnorm]

but FWIW, I think if you're going to take the really hard stance on this, then "self-supported" and "group start" become an oxymoron when put together.

That's a point well worth considering Dave and maybe the only true 'self-supported' ride is a solo ride with no tracker option, as that in itself can act as a crutch and alter our decision making.

[ScotRoutes]

but FWIW, I think if you're going to take the really hard stance on this, then "self-supported" and "group start" become an oxymoron when put together.

That's a point well worth considering Dave and maybe the only true 'self-supported' ride is a solo ride with no tracker option, as that in itself can act as a crutch and alter our decision making.

Yep - I've said as much in the past. Knowing there's a big red button at hand could easily lead someone to take extra risks.

[Richard G]

but FWIW, I think if you're going to take the really hard stance on this, then "self-supported" and "group start" become an oxymoron when put together.

That's a point well worth considering Dave and maybe the only true 'self-supported' ride is a solo ride with no tracker option, as that in itself can act as a crutch and alter our decision making.

Ooh, does this mean I was technically the only BB200 finisher this year?

Though I did have the benefit of my very own route.

[lune ranger]

Set everyone off at 1 week intervals?
Only ride on surfaces that don’t leave tyre tracks?

[Richard G]

Riding on roads... might catch on?

[thenorthwind]

That's a point well worth considering

Is it though?

Though I did have the benefit of my very own route.

Well, when you think about it, having someone else plot your route for you isn't very self-supported now is it?

[lune ranger]

Riding on roads... might catch on?

I doubt it

[Richard G]

Well, when you think about it, having someone else plot your route for you isn't very self-supported now is it?

Psh, like I'd be crazy enough to trust one of Stu's GPX files!

[fatbikephil]

On a related note I've always been of the view that good knowledge of the trails a route follows is a huge advantage. It is for me I think having done a few YD's where I've had a quick look at the route, worked out where it goes and how many times I've previously ridden it all and instantly had a good knowledge of how long stuff will take, how hard climbs will be, where re-supply is and how to pace myself.

However there have been numerous instances of folk who have had no route knowledge of an ITT whatsoever (even monsters like the HT) and bashed through miles quicker than everybody else.

[whitestone]

Crikey! Not a rabbit hole but a bloody warren

I'll expand a bit on things (from my perspective).

At home I charged two sets of rechargeables and tested that the Oregon worked with both. One set stayed in the unit, the other set was wrapped in cling film to avoid accidental discharge.

On Saturday night I'd climbed up out of Bucknell and had dropped down to a track when I got the low battery warning. Changed the batteries and the unit didn't start up. At that point Alex and Piotr crossed the track a little ahead of me, maybe 100m away. I set off after them, when I got to where they had crossed they were out of sight and there were two possible tracks! I checked the ground for tyre marks but given this was a trail centre there were lots of them Fortunately with the rain most were obviously older. I caught up with them and asked if they had any spare batteries. Piotr was using his phone for nav (and a mobile disco by the sound of it), Alex had one spare set. At that news I wasn't going to take his only spares. So I asked if I could tag along.

Today, looking at the map, I now realise I only "needed" assistance for the next 30km or so until the route reached the Kerry Ridgeway when I mostly knew the way back to Llanbrynmair (there was a 2km bit I hadn't done) but had never done it in the dark. I've a very visual brain so if I've been somewhere I tend to recognise it, so a bivy and then continue in the daylight could have been an option. I might have done a right then left instead of a left then right on occasion but it wouldn't have been too different a route. If I'd swapped the batteries when at the pub in Bucknell I'd probably have been able to get some there - AAs are pretty ubiquitous.

[macinblack]

My first action for this year's BB200 was to ignore all the comments of it being a fast route and remarks about the high number of black badges given for the October edition. As a bimbler, I can't really exploit the advantages of more tarmac and often Welsh road layers like to show their sadistic side.

Anyway, the night before, I holed up at The Aleppo in Carno. Met the London Contingent there, lovely fellows. Popped up to the Wynnstay for a pint of bitter cocktail and met some more lovely fellows, the first time I had talked to any of them. Back to the Aleppo for a nightcap and bed, any thought of sleep thwarted by a water-hammer in the cold water tank above my room. The landlord sorted it for me though (by banging about in the roof for another half an hour...)

I rested well thereafter, I don't tend to sleep but a night of relaxation will do and then off for the five mile drive to the school. My daughter had baked me some flapjack for the ride and even with a stone of it on the bike, I had enough to share the love and left some with the beverages. I had a brief talk about existentialism with EG Al whilst attending to last minute faff and then It Was Time. My only real goal is to finish before it gets dark again the next day, so whilst I wasn't fussed about starting at 7am, I did want to be off by 8 and I was sent hill-wards by Stu on the dot.

The first on route decision I made was that the phone was stopping in the tank bag, what with the weather an' all, so sorry, no pictures to alleviate the waffle.

So the traditional warm-up along the road to Pennant did little to warn of the what the wind had in mind. Didn't take long though, I mean, who amongst us doesn't mind being blown off occasionally but that first climb resulted in a short push until I could ride into the wind. Up and over then and off into Hafren where I spoke briefly to one of the Polish riders who was regretting what many of us do the first time, that is bringing the kitchen sink. I then rode with Colin (1) for a little way until the ford where the adage “Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks” never works for me. I get that there's a bridge within spitting distance, I have seen where the bridge is a number of times, I know where it is, I even saw a rider crossing it, so why did I try to ride through it? I can only think that we still have the genetic coding of when we were amphibious in our DNA. That'll be wet feet for the rest of the ride then. So much for waterproof boots and waterproof socks. Hafren was also where my rear mech started to play up, despite me having Calvin Jonesed it the previous day. Some trailside tweeking got me going again but it was a problem that would reoccur regularly throughout the ride.

One day I'll take note and remember the places I pass through but for the most part I am blissfully unaware of the where I leave my tyre marks. I enjoyed the single track parts through Hafren and was having happy thoughts, mainly just to spite the weather gods. I rode with another rider for a short time who I realised was the real Colin (2) so I have no idea who Colin (1) was. I rarely look at my trip computer on my GPS as I don't need reminding how slow I am and so it was a pleasant surprise whilst riding with Charliecres when he said we were at 57km. That meant tea and cake was just around the corner. Into the café then to join the other riders enjoying the respite including Not Sean IOW. Other riders came in whilst I made the most of my only likely opportunity for a hot drink, the ever cheerful London Contingent arrived, as did the REAL Colin so apologies to (1) and (2) if I called you Colin, unless you were another Colin of course.

It was soon time to plod on, though I had been going quicker than I thought I would be and I hadn't really been pushing myself, I began to consider the possibilities of achieving a goal that I never thought would be within reach, though deep down I knew that in reality that prospect would melt away like late winter frost by morning.

Off I rode then, nothing to report really until the woods around Abbeycwmhir where at the top of one climb I happened across a Springer with a tracker fitted who seemed to be purposefully following a scent. It gave me a look as if to say “Nothing to see here, carry on.” So I did. It was alsoaround those woods (I think,) that I was riding for a short while with the chap with the orange Bearbones top who had been in the café, our path's crossed a number of times but I never found out your name. Anyway, he went off up one path and when I looked at my GPS it seemed that it was the wrong one, I shouted as much and went and pushed my bike up the muddy, steep correct path, only it wasn't. Ah well, it's not like I haven't got form for such errors.

Darkness soon followed and it was back up onto Glyndwr's Way and then on to the Heart of Wales line trail where I spent some time riding with the London Contingent who were still as cheerful as ever, did I mention they're lovely fellows? Eventually I dropped back, mindful that I haven't done any long rides since before lockdown and knowing I needed some beans left in the can for later.

Bucknell Woods, that's a place name I'll remember, probably until next Tuesday. It was then there that I took (yet another) wrong turn along the drop to Nettledale. I soon realised my mistake and headed back to the top. It was time for a comfort break and so I leaned my bike against a post, did what I needed to and then set off again. I'd been riding for quite some time when as I approached another gate I saw a light coming towards me, slightly confused I opened the gate for them and as they got nearer I noticed the distinctive boldly painted “Please close the gate sign” Realisation dawned. Bugger. Consoling words from Flying Pig (I think it was) may have helped. Oh well, no point dwelling upon it. I re-retraced my steps to the point of my original deviation and the irony wasn't lost on me that the post I leaned my bike on was the way marker for the route I should have taken.

Crack on then Mac, which I did followed by a spill that spudded my GPS bracket of the handlebars and that also meant that no amount of pulling at the spring catch would get the unit off, the batteries now having died as well. When I worked down the pit, if something stopped working, the usual solution was to hit with a hammer. I didn't have one to hand and so banging it against something dense (no, not my head) would have to do. I used my inner bar ends to good effect and then bodged the bracket to some semblance of functionality.

Weariness was beginning to take hold and it was then a case of bloody mindedness to keep going. I forced some more food down because I had to and was regretting adding an electrolyte tab to my water, I don't usually use them but was trying the scientific approach, which I'm sure isn't supposed to induce nausea. I'm not quite sure where it was, Offa's Dyke maybe but I came across another hound seemingly knowing what it was doing, this one was a big white thing that thankfully took no notice of me. Not long after I was following behind some quad bikes and then caught them up where they had joined a gathering of folk with horse boxes, so whether it was their dog, I do not know.

By 2am I knew I would need to have a rest and so I looked for a place that was flat, reasonably level and off the hills out of the wind. I've no idea where it was but I found a suitable place and got my mat and bivvy bag out, I left the quilt be, I never sleep but even so I didn't want be too comfortable. After an hour it was time to forge onwards but I just bimbled on instead. I was too tired to care about where I was and just kept going. At some point, following the GPS line I dropped down a farm track that only went for about 50m but was comprised of mud that prided itself on being the stickiest known to mankind, I then followed a field line that led to a fence with no way through. I looked around for a gate or some indication of a right of way, nothing. I then realised there were no tyre marks anywhere, bugger, here we go again. I headed back and just about dragged my bike back up the track and then saw a gate whistling to itself, trying to look inconspicuous. Through it I went and into the infamous turnip field.

Eventually I was up on to the Kerry Ridgeway and the long slog across it. I hadn't seen another sole for quite a while, in fact I saw no one else for the remainder of the ride. It wasn't too bad to be honest at least it was relatively level, which was a boon because my climbing legs had left me a note saying it wasn't me it was them but they had to go. At the end of the Ridgeway it was a case of plodding on, every foot forward being one less to go. Above Mochdre I tried to eat something, a small piece of flapjack. It took me 15 minutes to get it down.

By now it was light again and I had got a bit of my mojo back, I was cycling most climbs but anything too steep was a push – I'm looking at you, you nasty little bugger after the little ford in where ever. Onwards then and then upwards, definitely a push up that final big climb near the end after Llawr Y Glyn. I was near the top trying to push my lungs back in, I saw the miraculous sight of two riders hooning up the hill. Wow thought I, how? As they passed me they both gave me a cheery hello, I tried to muster an equally affable greeting but probably sounded like a right miserable bugger. Anyway, off they went on their e-bikes and I began to follow them but not quite at the same speed.

Bit by bit the miles passed, I have an old Casio watch strapped to my top tube the time is out by around 20-25 minutes, I don't know exactly. I toyed with the idea that I might make it for a blue badge, so tried to inject a bit of vim into my efforts. As I rode through the woods above Pennant, the hopes faded but as I rode down to Pennant, the rush roused them again. So I hit the home straight and I looked my watch, It looked like I had 5 minutes to get back for a blue, the demon on my shoulder whispered “One less stop you could have had a blue but Mac, you blew it.” As it whispered the road stretched like corridors do in horror films. Okay then, off we go, a faint heart never plucked a pig, I think they say.

I cycled as fast as my little legs could go. The temporary traffic light are for cars and there's plenty of room inside those bollards for a bike. My internal clock was telling me as I entered Llanbrynmair that 5 minutes had passed but I swept into the car park and knocked on the kitchen window, “What time is it?” Stu replied “11.52.”

I was totally tatered as I sat drinking my tea in the school but I had a very blue badge on the table in front of me and felt as happy as the aforementioned pig that got plucked. That said, never again. Until next year.

A final thought:

Whoever brings me the head of the person who invented leg warmers, a very special prize awaits.

[Ian]

Enjoying the write-ups, guys. Interesting to see how the different tales cross over each other, from their different perspectives.

Anyway, who was the dude from the IoW, if it wasn't Sean?

I rode with a (very quick) first timer called Huw as far as Bucknell, whereupon I needed a sit down for some food. After about 10 mins of being there (must have been about 4:30 as it was still light, just). another guy came over the bridge by the ford on some drop-bar bike looking a) pretty fast and b) rather too fresh. Think he had luggage on his bike, but not sure? No idea who it was. Anyone any the wiser?

[sean_iow]

^ Nice write up, I enjoyed that, all the 'fun' of the event without having to do it

Anyway, who was the dude from the IoW, if it wasn't Sean?

I'm wondering this as well. At the very least I owe him an apology that people thought he was me It's quite a small Island so there's a reasonable chance I know him.

[In Reverse]

It's quite a small Island so there's a hugh chance we're related.

[In Reverse]

Genuinely feels like ages since the Oct BB200. Milder weather, longer days, drier trails. Looking back it was a reasonably nice ride on the whole. I was feeling it towards the end, had to push a couple of the last steep tarmac bits, but I enjoyed pretty much all of the ride.
I was fairly late setting off, possibly the last judging by car park positions, leaving at ten to ten. I managed to keep a fairly brisk pace so I passed a decent number of riders through the day and night and had some good chats along the way. Really nice to see so many Boners again - 2 years since I was last at a group BB event.
Got back just after 3am so 17hrs13min total. Looking back at the Strava file I could have cut down on the stopped time quite a bit - I was stopped for 1hr45min just at the cafe and the pub - but I count that as valuable eating, drinking and nattering time.
It was just starting to hammer down with rain as I dropped back down to the finish so probably got lucky with the weather.
https://www.strava.com/activities/6219973672

[macinblack]

^ Nice write up, I enjoyed that, all the 'fun' of the event without having to do it

Anyway, who was the dude from the IoW, if it wasn't Sean?

I'm wondering this as well. At the very least I owe him an apology that people thought he was me It's quite a small Island so there's a reasonable chance I know him.

He did say he knew who you were from Strava but I don't think he knew you personally. We'll have to get him an "I'm not Sean" badge for next year.

[Escape Goat]

I'm loving reading how others got on.

I've since looked at what I took, I'm going to leave the kitchen sink at home next time.

2019



2021




Also, what's going on with the rear wheel? It looks oval ha!

[ScotRoutes]

Also, what's going on with the rear wheel? It looks oval ha!

For compatibility with oval cranks?