Morning all,

Maybe this has been talked about for months but if so then I missed it.

I refer to the casual mention of a brand new Bear Bones long distance event at the end of the newsletter!

Obviously Stu will release more intel when he sees fit but I'm already keen for answers.

Such as:

530? Miles or KMs?

When?

The route?

What's the tussock to sensible rideable surface ratio?

Whatever the answers I think we can agree that it'll be a great addition to the calendar! Almost seems odd that it's taken this long for one to come into existence (unless you've tried to organise something similar and know how much work is involved).

Nice one Stu and looking forward to hearing more about it.

Cheers, Gairy.

......and how much climbing?

sign me up.

This might be a clue to the stats

http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... =15&t=9309

Says 530 km.
Kilo miles or kilometres. I guess latter... but you never know with such info coming from the UK...
Interested too, although there's still Ian's route I'd love to ride.

Yep, I totally missed that thread in the Routes section.

So KMs it is.

Looks very similar (in distance and alt gain) to the Tuscany Trail but knowing the Welsh climbs and Stu's sense of humour I'm guessing that it'll be tough going in places.

Think it'd take me at least 4 days but then again I'm a slovenly mammal.

It's more like 5 days for mortals. A bit of everything, mostly rideable too apparently

But there's quite a lot of climbing

Hopefully this won't disappoint too much but I'm very doubtful that there'll ever be a group start. One of the reasons for routing it was to encourage people to try a 'big ride' without the 'pressure'. I realise this approach might well backfire but I do wonder how many folk are put off from attempting some routes as an ITT in the real sense because routes have become synonymous with 'racing'? ... we'll see.

Yeah that would be me being put off

And it will definitely be me having a go at the 530 :)

Can't wait!

That's fair enough.

I'm the opposite as I like the idea that there's a bunch of other loonies out doing the same thing at the same time as me. And there's nothing to stop anyone doing any given event route on their own at any point without any perceived pressure or other dislike of the group thing.

I've never considered any event I've entered to be a race (even the few actual races I entered in my younger years!).

Neither option is better or worse they're just different.

I'm sure you'll get loads of takers for this route (me included at some point) but a set time and date for a big group start 'event' would be my preference for what it's worth.

Also like the idea of a group start, for same reasons as above.
Sure, some people may treat it as a race. Good effort if they can.
Bb200 non stop is doable, this non stop. Hmmm, no chance.
To stop racing do as the new Zealand TA; a minimum time to complete the course.

I hope Steve's name for it sticks. (Big Bear)

I hope Steve's name for it sticks. (Big Bear)

I hate to take this away from Steve but 'Big Bear' is simply what I called the gpx file when I emailed it to him

Ha, fair enough... either way, I hope it's what you go with.

There's not that many with a group start really: HT550; Cairngorms Loop; YD2/300; Braunton 150; Capital Trail.; probably a couple more. There's some where there's a group start but not many turn up Peak 200; Borders 350. Most of the rest are genuine ITTs.

Nice that's there's a mix IMO.

There's not that many with a group start really: HT550; Cairngorms Loop; YD2/300; Braunton 150; Capital Trail.; probably a couple more.

This was really behind my thinking - all the above are there to ride at any point throughout the year but not many people actually seem to. Is that because in peoples minds they're 'tied in' to racing rather than simply riding? ... I'm guessing here by the way.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:

There's not that many with a group start really: HT550; Cairngorms Loop; YD2/300; Braunton 150; Capital Trail.; probably a couple more.

This was really behind my thinking - all the above are there to ride at any point throughout the year but not many people actually seem to. Is that because in peoples minds they're 'tied in' to racing rather than simply riding? ... I'm guessing here by the way.

Presumably the ones who dont want to race just dont submit a time. Might be loads of ITTers going unnoticed.

Presumably the ones who dont want to race just dont submit a time. Might be loads of ITTers going unnoticed.

Maybe but it's a fairly small world, you'd think you might hear about some of them?

I think that with the HT550 it's a pretty long ride and has a fairly short window of opportunity between the end of winter and the start of the stalking season (though that varies by estate) plus it's almost the poster child of UK ITTs so many, myself included, look at the group start. If Alan hadn't accepted me onto the group start I was planning to ITT it the week before. I think there'll be a few doing that this year anyway. Alan lists all completions under 8 days so unless someone wants to be completely off the radar then they'll be listed.

I rode the first YD200 route as an ITT in the spring of the following year. I think Ian Fitz has also done that edition as an ITT. The Cairngorms Loop sees a lot of interest, at least in terms of requests for information on forums but whether people then aim for a time within the limit or just do it as a tour over four or five days is hard to determine. Also thinking of heading down to do the Braunton 150 as an ITT as it's unfinished business from last year.

Will be interested in this (Big Bear) when it's published - had planned on doing the Cambrian Trail as well at some point.

I still don't know how I feel about "touring". Though I suspect that's in part because I haven't found the right people to ride with yet.

I definitely wouldn't tour solo.

Richard G wrote:I still don't know how I feel about "touring". Though I suspect that's in part because I haven't found the right people to ride with yet.

I definitely wouldn't tour solo.

Definitely a different mindset between "touring" and ITT. I'm quite happy being on my own for the latter, it's inevitably really, whereas touring is altogether more sociable so having a companion seems right. Having said that we did see some solo (road) tourers up in Scotland the other weekend. On last year's YD200 I was on my own from the 50Km mark and just by chance bumped into Stuart Rider as he left the Moorcock, if I'd been 30 seconds later then I wouldn't have seen anyone until the finish.

I still don't know how I feel about "touring".

To quote somebody - "It's not f*cking touring"

There's no restrictions on time, ie you'd be welcome to bang it out as quickly as you liked. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what many folk will do, maybe to see how they compare to others or perhaps simply as a personal challenge.

Another problem with a group start is selecting a date. There's so much going on these days and I'll always try and avoid clashing with anything else ... maybe the week between Christmas and New Year would be good

It definitely helps fill a gap in the distances of UK ITTs. There's a number at 200Km or thereabouts, then 300Km then there's a bit of a gap with only The Cambrian Trail for company to ... The HT550 at almost 900Km. A decent distance to help building commitment. Not everything can be "hardest", "wildest", etc

I'm surprised the Cambrian Trail hasn't had more attempts. Maybe people just want circular routes these days?

But then, no-one has done the double yet either, so who knows?

Bearbonesnorm wrote:Hopefully this won't disappoint too much but I'm very doubtful that there'll ever be a group start. One of the reasons for routing it was to encourage people to try a 'big ride' without the 'pressure'. I realise this approach might well backfire but I do wonder how many folk are put off from attempting some routes as an ITT in the real sense because routes have become synonymous with 'racing'? ... we'll see.

Good call Stu. People who want long should maybe also have a peak at the old Sarn Helen route...good 5 days for a pootle, 72hrs more than possible if you want to smash down it and still sleep 5hrs a night in some great places.

The Cairngorms Loop; many folk discuss this on the forums but there are so many variations and few seem to be following the route talked about here (especially the Fealar Lodge section).

I am little concerned that having so many "named" routes is encouraging folk to stop planning their own.

As for solo touring, there's a lot to be said for it. Riding alone, you're more likely to strike up conversation with other travellers and with shopkeepers, barmen etc. Getting local chat is one of tourings highlights for me.