Evening Boners

what's current go-to for a 4-season sleeping bag? Or maybe a 3 season that will cover a British winter.

Alpkit Pipedream 600 looks to fit the bill bit is sold out until June. Any others that are (hopefully) readily available?

Cumulus bags for me. Good range reasonable prices (or they used to be before the £ started its fall) and great quality. Look at their quilts and comforters too.

http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... eping-bags

I have a mountain equipment snowline SL
-9c comfort and 1.3kg

Not what you asked for (but since when did that stop anyone pontificating on the internet ) but unless you are doing lots of winter bivvying then I'd look at layering a bag with a quilt. We just don't get cold winters in the UK, not really cold, and if it does get chilly then it's only for a night or two. I've a seriously warm sleeping bag (Rab Summit 1100) that I've had for more than 20 years. I got it when I was doing winter alpine climbing. In those 20 years I've used it less than 30 nights. At a current retail price of around £700 that's not good value.

My current "system" is a PHD Minim 200 sleeping bag and a Cumulus 150 quilt. Either is good enough for summer or down to around 5C. Below that I put the quilt around the bag and that combination is good (for me) down to -5/6C and there aren't many nights in a winter even in Scotland that are much colder than that. If you are a cold sleeper then a warmer quilt, the 250 or 350 from the Cumulus range for example, would give you an autumn "bag" along with better winter warmth when combined with an inner bag.

The cost and weight of such a two bag system isn't much different from a dedicated bag (from the PHD range) rated to the same effective temperature: I think it was about £10 more and was within 200g of weight. The price difference will be more now that the pound has tanked.

Note that Cumulus sleeping bags but not quilts are sold under the Criterion name in the UK, if you want a quilt then you have to find an EU seller, I don't think Cumulus themselves will ship quilts here as they've a distributor but there are EU based shops that will. Stu reviewed the Cumulus 150 quilt here - http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... ested.html . There's quite a few threads about them as well, a search for "cumulus" gives over 400 postings about them.

You do need a bigger bivy bag, something like the Alpkit Hunka XL, to take the increased volume of all that down. With a normal sized bivy I can get inflatable mat, bag and quilt inside but not me!

Edit: If you've not used a quilt before there's some useful info on the Enlightened Equipment website https://support.enlightenedequipment.co ... -To-Quilts - obviously since they sell quilts they are pushing the benefits. There's also this page https://support.enlightenedequipment.co ... t-Layering about layering quilts and bags.

In Reverse wrote:Or maybe a 3 season that will cover a British winter

In my experience a good bag that comfortably gets you to zero, will be fine for 99% of trips in the U.K.

I bought a -10c PhD bag in their sale a couple of years ago and it's rare it gets used.

Probably depends on how warm/cold a sleeper you are, and if you feel the cold?

As Bobs said, layering can give you better results to cover a greater amount of scenarios.
Perhaps think about, getting a winter mat (high R rating), things like thick, warm mountaineering socks, thermals for the colder months. I also find that I can use a winter jacket as an addition 'quilt' inside my bag laid on top of me.

Or buy a crux torpedo bag as they have an event shell. I have the 700 which is comfort rated to -11 for men. Weighs 1.45kg they do a 500 and a 350 which are lighter and maybe more suited for the uk. Available direct from crux or ultralight outdoor gear.

I mention these bags as you won't need a bivi bag as the shell is waterproof.

Have you got a budget in mind Andy?

Recommend for Cumulus/Criterion bags - they are huge for me 75kg at 5' 10".
Got mine at good discount from company in Cambridge but posted direct from Criterion.
Got my quilt direct from Cumulus as had some €s on a cash card left over to spend.
If I was buying again would seriously consider UK Hammocks ground dweller quilt as has zip foot box and can be used flat or wrap around.
Dont forget you need a winter rated mat as well.

Cheers all, some really good info there. That's a hell of a post Bob.

My current set up is fairly summer-orientated - I've got a Sea to Summit Spark ii and a NeoAir XLite, both bought a few years ago for summer hiking, plus a Borah bivvy. For colder nights I'll sleep in baselayers/thermals, plus hat and thick fleecy snowboarding socks and I've got a cheap down quilted blanket that I wrap myself in. It's just about OK for most nights but on the coldest nights I'm generally not warm enough. It's also a bit of a faff tbh, that blanket never stays in place.

Looks like I'm maybe best buying something to boost the warmth of my current bag. Was hoping to pick something up ahead of the WRT now the forecast's shifted, but might have to tough it out and order a Cumulus, although that UK hammocks one is also interesting. Anyone tried/heard anything about the PHD Ultra Quilt? Their Minim Overbag also caught my eye but I suspect that might be overkill.

Stu - looking for something I can get a good few years use out of, so not averse to spending £££.

If you do a search for "Enlightened" (bear with me here) it brings up lots of threads about quilts/bags including discussions about the relative merits or otherwise of offerings from Alpkit, PHD, Cumulus and Enlightened Equipment. I've written the general gist of my post above several times The thread about "Blacks sleeping bags" is probably the point at which I was in your situation.

The general feeling is that the PHD quilts are non-technical and most tend to go for Cumulus at the budget but still decent end of the market or EE if you want to spoil yourself. The Alpkit Cloudcover was very good value when they introduced it but perhaps not so much now. I've no experience of the UK Hammock's offering but those who have them seem more than pleased.

If your Borah Gear bivy is anything like mine then there's plenty of room in there for winter kit.

I think the first job is to decide whether you want a quilt or a bag. Don't think you can move forward until you know which path you're following.

If you decide on a quilt, it's hard to see beyond a Cumulus 450. These folk are very good and if ordered now would probably arrive before next weekend.
https://www.outdoorline.sk/en/39-quilts

If you decide on a bag, it gets complicated I've always had a soft spot for Western Mountaineering but they're spendy.

I still have an ME titan 650 for sale. I have used it a few times, comfortably at -13.
Apologies if a bit mercenary.

Cheers all. After reading loads of threads I've followed the advice of Bob and Stu from this one and ordered a Cumulus 250 (to layer with my 2-season bag) from http://www.outdoorline.sk. Delivery 2 - 5 days, wonder if I'll be sleeping warmer next weekend?

I've also found out that I've been using my existing bag inside out for the last four years or so - who knew? So a productive day on the sleeping front.

In Reverse wrote:Cheers all. After reading loads of threads I've followed the advice of Bob and Stu from this one and ordered a Cumulus 250 (to layer with my 2-season bag) from http://www.outdoorline.sk. Delivery 2 - 5 days, wonder if I'll be sleeping warmer next weekend?

Good call. They're very nicely made. I'll be taking my 250 quilt + silk liner to WRT. I'll have a lightweight jacket, buff and warm hat on if there's a nip in the air, and expect to be toasty.

i use a crux torpedo 350 for 3 season use then in the winter i add a phd half bag and my hooded down jacket get best of both worlds,dont need a bivvy either as its got a event shell and waterproof zip

Hopefully this helps.

I sleep cold annoyingly, though I run warm when I'm awake (even more annoyingly)

I have three sleeping bags for 'good' use (i.e never lent)
1 - montbell +10C
2 - western mountaineering 0C
3 - montbell -10C

I have an EE quilt rated to 30F (-1C)

I use the quilt the most. As a result I rarely use sleeping bags 1 and 2 now. 1 packs smaller so is still handy for summer

I use 3 when I went to the Alps last autumn and stayed in snow. Apart from that it rarely gets used

Before the quilt I used 2 the most

TL:DR - I find something that gets down to around 0C to be the most useful sleeping accessory

This may sound like a stupid question... and it may be a stupid question... but can someone explain how you use a quilt in these circumstances?

Do you lay directly on your sleeping mat? I've got one with a fairly reasonable R value, but I can't imagine that being particularly warm, or comfortable. If you're in a bivi with the mat underneath I assume you'd be directly laying on the bivi then?

I sort of get the idea if you have a covered sleeping mat, where it might be really nice for summer, but I'm struggling to get my head around using them in colder temperatures.

Do you lay directly on your sleeping mat?

Yes

I can't imagine that being particularly warm, or comfortable.

No less warm and stop being soft.

If you're in a bivi with the mat underneath I assume you'd be directly laying on the bivi then?

Yes but I prefer the mat inside usually.

Richard G wrote:This may sound like a stupid question... and it may be a stupid question... but can someone explain how you use a quilt in these circumstances?

Do you lay directly on your sleeping mat? I've got one with a fairly reasonable R value, but I can't imagine that being particularly warm, or comfortable. If you're in a bivi with the mat underneath I assume you'd be directly laying on the bivi then?

I sort of get the idea if you have a covered sleeping mat, where it might be really nice for summer, but I'm struggling to get my head around using them in colder temperatures.

Pretty much as Stu has said. Mat inside bivy bag and lay inside quilt on mat. If it's cold you are likely to have some clothing on anyway - I change ASAP after riding into a dry baselayer as it avoids me getting chilled from stopping in my potentially damp riding gear. My winter mat is an Exped inflatable so definitely comfy. The only problem I would have with lying with skin to mat contact is that nylon tends to be somewhat clammy as it doesn't breathe in the same way as cotton, etc.

Yep, the only issue is clammyness as Bob says

At Bearstock I was so warm in the night that I had stripped off, pushed my quilt off me and was just in my Borah and on top of my neoair. The skin in contact with the mat was clammy, slightly annoying but no big deal

Bearbonesnorm wrote:No less warm and stop being soft.

But... I'm like, really, really good at it!

Bearbonesnorm wrote:If you decide on a quilt, it's hard to see beyond a Cumulus 450. These folk are very good and if ordered now would probably arrive before next weekend.
https://www.outdoorline.sk/en/39-quilts

You weren't wrong about them Stu - it arrived this morning. Very nice it is too. Cheers for that.