looking for something to put under my alpkit numo as some sort of insulation / barrier from the cold, what ideal for the job ? .. maybe the silver foil blankets or ?

A foil blanket will be of very little use as they have no insulation properties. Best bet would be closed cell foam and it will be of greather benefit on top, rather than beneath the Numo.

Any insulation you add needs to be on top, the numo has no insulation other than air which starts backfiring once convection occurs, at which point youll be colder than the floor its on top of.

Once you add foam on top, unless you bungie it down youll struggle to stay atop such floating concoction of pads and be quite uncomfortable.
You may find it easier to simply ditch the numo and just got with CCF, its bulky as anything but still less than CCF PLUS a numo. Aslong as your back can take it ofcourse.

Either deal with the bulk, buy a cheap self inflating mat with more insulation, less bulk and alot more weight, or spunk up for a proper insulated air mat which will give you all the benefits and a much lighter wallet



Me? Im too cheap and just use CCF, moan about the bulk but brag about the fact i dont have to test my lung capacity just to make the bed.

Cheers for the info , looks like ill be wanting a new mat then with some sort of insulation , recommendations ?

I'll say Exped. Others will say Neoair ... in reality you'd not go wrong with either.

Some fairly good deals can be had on the Exped Down mat-lite if you shop about and I've seen some good prices on the Sea to Summit mats, which I'm told are very comfy.

OutdoorsGB are worth a look.

Stumpym4 wrote:Cheers for the info , looks like ill be wanting a new mat then with some sort of insulation , recommendations ?

There's typically two options: the Thermarest NeoAir range and the Exped Synmat and Downmats - most are here http://www.downsleepingbag.co.uk/sleepi ... -Mats.html You can get an inflator bag called the Schnozzle for the Expeds and there's a thread somewhere here about a ghetto version of that for the NeoAir range.

Stuart has a review of one of the Exped mats on the reviews part of this site.

I've an Exped Synmat Winterlite (which doesn't seem to be listed on the site above) which is lighter than the Alpkit Numo and as its name suggests is winter rated.

Here we go - down mat-lite ... much cheapness

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Exped_Downma ... tem=639021

If you are tall then I have a couple of downmat lite L's for sale. They are very warm - I am only selling them as we need mummy shape mats for our new tent.

Thanks for the ideas and links, its my birthday in 6 weeks and the wife wants some ideas :)
@ borderer , im a short arse :(

If you're getting an exped mat, definitely spend the extra and get the schnozzle bag. It makes inflating the mat a 30 second job and is so much easier at the end of a long day than huffing and puffing for minutes on end. Plus it double as a drybag! I got the Synmat 7 after my numo developed a leak - it's way warmer, more comfortable and doesnt make as much noise when I move around.

Steezysix wrote:If you're getting an exped mat, definitely spend the extra and get the schnozzle bag. It makes inflating the mat a 30 second job and is so much easier at the end of a long day than huffing and puffing for minutes on end. Plus it double as a drybag! I got the Synmat 7 after my numo developed a leak - it's way warmer, more comfortable and doesnt make as much noise when I move around.

I also think the Schnozzle is a good idea - putting dry air in rather than damp air out of your lungs will improve and retain the performance of the bag. I'm not getting this "huffing and puffing for minutes" bit though. It takes me about 8-9 lung fulls of air to fill a Synmat 7.

"huffing and puffing for minutes"

That was more about the Numo - I always thought the air valve was too small so it would take a lot of effort to fill. The last thing you want at the end of a days biking/hiking! The exped valve is a lot better, but I've used the scnhozzle from day one, so didn't realise it was that much quicker by blowing in.*

*Or, you have the lungs of a blue whale...

I bought a numo..........one word.......SHYTE

used it in my van on a boarded floor. bloody freezing.

A lot of the downmats come with a pump included so check before you order extra things you won't need. You are right that the pump makes a big difference though - it also keeps bacteria out of the down filling.

A lot of the downmats come with a pump included so check before you order extra things you won't need.

That's right. The Exped down insulated mats come with a 'mini pump'. They work okay but no where near as quickly as a Schnozzle bag ... and if nowt else, you've got to love the name, what a great word

Neoair's now come with the inflating bag included

#justsaying

benp1 wrote:Neoair's now come with the inflating bag included

#justsaying

The XTherm is really warm and worth every penny as you will get a good night's sleep on it. Several people I know tried mine and have now bought their own ones.

dlovett wrote:

benp1 wrote:Neoair's now come with the inflating bag included

#justsaying

The XTherm is really warm and worth every penny as you will get a good night's sleep on it. Several people I know tried mine and have now bought their own ones.

My slow-deflating-Neoair was ok directly on the snow in the Alps when combined with a CCF mat.

Now have an Xtherm, only tried it in anger once so far. I'm a cold sleeper so hoping to benefit from the extra warmth for no weight penalty

The point made about convection and using insulation between mat and bag/quilt .. that's a good point / tip. Hadn't really considered that though it seems obvious now. Would a roll of thin foam, thinner than a trad CCF mat, add much warmth to a neo air or is it better to trim a CCF mat?

Would a roll of thin foam, thinner than a trad CCF mat, add much warmth to a neo air or is it better to trim a CCF mat?

It would do something and it would be noticeable.

Wouldn't be difficult to attach a strap or two, to stop it sliding off - the kind of foam that's used for stiffening bags or as laminate floor underlay would work - 2mm thick(ish).

Any foam insulation, even if thin, would make a difference I reckon

Ta, will give it a go. Might need it fairly soon.