A question about lights

[JohnClimber]

No what lights etc. But maybe a silly question.

But last night I was riding on quiet roads and lanes to meet a mate for our bivi, I was using my KLite dynamo light to see where I was going, but I felt vulnerable when cars were heading towards me or riding up from behind.
On the back I had 2 very bright red flashers and only a BMW buzzed me (which is normal for scouse boy racers around here), but when I heard a car behind or approaching from the front I'd flick on my Troutie Spider Eye lights on low output pointing downwards and not into the drivers eye's but enough for them to see me (around 1500 lunem I guess).
This caused cars to notice me and sometimes slow right down, but other drivers flashed their main lights at me or even beep their horns.

Now my question is.
Is it's better to shine a bright light and maybe annoy on coming traffic, or risk it with only a smaller front light and light clothing?

[jamesatthelodge]

Yes much better to be seen as clearly as possible.
I run a klite and diablo on my helmet.
With scorpion four4th rear light which cars def notice and give me more space. Unless its a white van of course.
Unfortunately you have to spend a lot of money to be seen well these days.

[ianfitz]

1500 lumens is crazy bright when you are looking in to it. Even if it's pointed down.

You don't need much lumens up front to be seen. And many of the monster lights have terrible side visibility anyway.

I prefer a regular bike mounted front light to be seen and a helmet light that helps me see where I'm going.

[Chew]

My opinion is that rear flashers on their own can be quite dangerous.
May just be me, but my eyes struggle to work out where someone is (ie i can only see them when the lights on), plus because the light is only intermittent its difficult to judge distance/speed. Depends on the frequency of the flashing and the intensity.
I always prefer to use two lights, one constant so people have a fixed point of focus, and then a flasher which people associate with cyclists.

I suppose for front lights its how bright they are. They could be the same level of illumination as a cars main beam?
Its a balance between being seen and blinding people, as if they have to drive with eyes closed is not going to do you much good.

Two kinds of lights.
Ones to see with, and ones to be seen with.

I'd say make a mental note this week of the cyclists you pass on the road.
Good/bad setups that work for you as a driver, and the replicate the good ones.

[slarge]

Off road lights being used on road can be very dazzling. Much like car headlights on full beam. If you are using them, at least run them on low power and pointed downwards.

[ScotRoutes]

If you want to be seen at night, reflectives are better than lights - especially if they are attached to your feet and/or legs. Nothing says "cyclist" as much as a pair of feet pedalling.

Shining 1500 lumens at on oncoming driver is crazy.

Highway Code Rule 114

You MUST NOT
use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

[DoctorRad]

My preference on-road is to use a not-too-bright front light with a flare setting, pssibly angled down below windscreens. This attracts attention by saying "I'm a bike" without annoying drivers too much. The Cateye Volt 300 is a good option.

Also be wary of over-bright rear lights. I often follow other cyclists with these on a bike, and they really can easily blind to the point where central and peripheral vision becomes severely limited. When overtaking in a car, even with full beam on, an over-bright rear light can make it very difficult to see beyond the cyclist in order to determine if it's safe to overtake, especially if the light is angled towards the windscreen.

Also avoid flashers, front or rear. The work of the devil.

[JohnClimber]

My lights were pointing downwards and on their lowest setting.

[Yorlin]

Slightly off topic - what ever happened to the Troutie lights? I only really heard about them after they stopped being a thing...

[JohnClimber]

Slightly off topic - what ever happened to the Troutie lights? I only really heard about them after they stopped being a thing...

Chris has a full time job, this was a sidline that he wanted to take further but he didn't as he couldn't compete against the cheap Chinese lights coming in.

[Pirahna]

Not that I'm an expert, but vehicle lights on dip have a beam pattern that's flat then rises to the left. They illuminate the pavement\verge whatever you want to call it but don't dazzle oncoming traffic. Bike lights, particularly MTB lights have a broad, mainly unfocused beam which lights up everything. Great for you but not so good for oncoming traffic. I assume that's why some companies sell different lights for road and off road. Now that I've said that I'm going to try a bit of electrical tape on my Exposure front to see if it cuts the beam a bit.

On the back I use an Exposure Trace. The flashing mode isn't an on\off but dim\bright which I think makes it easier for drivers to judge distance. On the lowest setting it's plenty bright enough and lasts for ages on a charge.

[Wotsits]

Always presumed this is what 'flashing mode' is for..
Either put your bar or helmet light onto flash whilst on the rd..

[ScotRoutes]

My Revo is connected through a Kemo M172 which is attached to my stem. For oncoming traffic I'll flick the switch to the USB port, thereby switching off two of the LEDs.

[Trail-rat]

Flashing rear lights make it very difficult to judge distance.

The brighter the flasher the harder it is.

[whitestone]

The beam pattern on car headlights is done by a Fresnel on the front of the light - basically a set of grooves cut or moulded into the plastic/perspex. Look at an MTB light and there's just a plain flat bit of perspex so the light is free to scatter where it isn't needed. Surely not too difficult to come up with a Fresnel lens to drop down in front of this when on the road? The B&M lights have them.

[benp1]

The beam pattern on car headlights is done by a Fresnel on the front of the light - basically a set of grooves cut or moulded into the plastic/perspex. Look at an MTB light and there's just a plain flat bit of perspex so the light is free to scatter where it isn't needed. Surely not too difficult to come up with a Fresnel lens to drop down in front of this when on the road? The B&M lights have them.

That used to be true, but surely not any more? HID/Xenon and LED mean it's more directional now no? (My current car has lights that turn with the steering for even more fancyness...)

On the road I have my headlight on flash (Diablo) and my bar light on low and pointed down. Diablo also has a red eye micro in

Rear light on solid or flash depending on the conditions

BUT, reflectives are probably the most effective thing of all. For bikepacking I don't really have many reflectives as I'm not on the road that much, but on my commute reflectives are a big part of my outfit. Leg related ones are the best

I have some of the Respro reflective leg straps on my xmas list, which look nicer than the ones I have at the moment (which had flashing LED lights but don't look so reflective). Reflectives on overshoes or bottom of your leggings really help you look like a cyclist

[whitestone]

Just checked the cars outside work (been taking rubbish out) and it looks like the Fresnel pattern is now on the reflector behind the light and the light points backwards towards the reflector. So the same effect is achieved by a different path (sic)

[benp1]

Just checked the cars outside work (been taking rubbish out) and it looks like the Fresnel pattern is now on the reflector behind the light and the light points backwards towards the reflector. So the same effect is achieved by a different path (sic)

Ah OK, that sort of makes sense. My last car had a switch behind the lights for changing which side was biased towards. Made continent driving easier. I guess it must change that reflector somehow?

Current car has a setting within the options (within the computer) for which side of the road you drive on, haven't checked but I presume it must do the same

Sorry for the thread derail!

[mark]

If I'm using a reflective jacket I'll clip a small led light to the handlebar pointing at me and another to the saddle to shine on legs. I think they're about 15 lumens so after a bit of adjusting to get the angle right it lights you up but doesn't affect your vision.

should have added this is in addition to other lights.

[fatbikephil]

John it may be a variation of car drivers hating cyclists - there has been press coverage of cyclists with bright lights 'dazzling' car drivers so dumb car driver sees cyclist with bright light = flash there lights and beep horn regardless of whether they were actually dazzled or not. Modern car lights are horribly bright and cause far more dazzling than any bicycle light unless youve got an exposure 6 pack and shone it right in their eyes. Its fine if your in a car with similar lights but if, say, your on a motorbike with a single 55/55 halogen light and its chucking it down, modern car Hid lights dazzle you completely so they have nowt to complain about from a wee bicycle light.... Sounds like you were doing the right thing and a few car drivers were being d***s. I use my maxx D on the road and its always pointed downward (ie where you need to see) and on low or medium of its lowest power setting - Never had a problem and I reserve high power for when cars don't dip there headlights....

[Yorlin]

Slightly off topic - what ever happened to the Troutie lights? I only really heard about them after they stopped being a thing...

Chris has a full time job, this was a sidline that he wanted to take further but he didn't as he couldn't compete against the cheap Chinese lights coming in.

Ah I see. Thanks anyway!

When I'm out on foot at night, I do get pretty dazzled by proper bike lights - this is up the hills or on the canal path home. When I'm driving sometimes bike lights are a bit eye-singeing, mainly the helmet mounted ones as you automatically look at the biggest threat I guess!

[benp1]

If I'm using a reflective jacket I'll clip a small led light to the handlebar pointing at me and another to the saddle to shine on legs. I think they're about 15 lumens so after a bit of adjusting to get the angle right it lights you up but doesn't affect your vision.

should have added this is in addition to other lights.

You'd be better with something hi vis

Reflectives need to reflect back at the light source, so unless your light source is in the same direction as the vehicle or third party, it won't make any difference. Have a look at home with a torch in your hand, it only reflects when it's pointed at the reflective bit from near your eyes

[Trail-rat]

The light shining back at reflectives works brilliantly I've seen a number of folk doing it locally. Doesn't even need to be a bright light loominbback at you

Identify you as a human rather than a stupidly bright blob of light.

Your theory is sound benp1 but in practice the opposite seems to be true ime.

[Zippy]

I cycle commute a lot of miles - I also have been known to do a fair bit of driving on occasion.

My commuting setup exposure trace and traceR front and rear to be seen with - on flashing mode. When driving, a flashing light is really obvious it's a cyclist, and find it a lot easier to spot and plan for knowing what it is on the road.

I also have a exposure diablo on my head, the roads I use are fairly quiet, and it means I can direct the beam away from dazzling the driver - unless they're still full beam, in which case a quick flash of the light towards the driver encourages them to go to dip beam (and on those cars with auto assist hi beam or whatever, it seems to electronically trigger them to dip).
Another thing the headlight is good for, is directing the light towards cars on roundabouts when either they're thinking about cutting you up, or you don't quite know if they've seen you.

Those are my little conclusions, and has kept me quite safe without really getting any abuse off other drivers for the past few years of commuting (easily 5k+ miles/year).

[benp1]

The light shining back at reflectives works brilliantly I've seen a number of folk doing it locally. Doesn't even need to be a bright light loominbback at you

Identify you as a human rather than a stupidly bright blob of light.

Your theory is sound benp1 but in practice the opposite seems to be true ime.

Our mileage varies here. Haven't seen it work but also haven't got many cases to go on

Great if it does work though. I really like having a headlight for the commute, I'm definitely in the minority though (LOTS of cyclists commuting in London, average lights and reflectives on the whole)