My Howies merino stuff is starting to develop holes and wear very thin in places. My BAM stuff is OK but bit heavy / bulky so I'm thinking of a new layer or two.

I run hot and sweat like a beast. They don't need to be bike specific (in truth I'd rather they weren't) so those a little more toward the T shirt end than the high tech string vest are preferable.

Although I've used the Howies stuff I find merino and its associated hype misplaced. It tends to get sodden, not shift wetness and loose shape. As a sleeping layer excellent but for me, as active wear, a bit rubbish. Similar experience with BAM. Also, full price Howies is a bit eye watering (£59 for their current offering ).

But after all those merino/ bamboo gripes I'd still like something that wasn't solely the product of an oil barrel and incorporated natural materials or at least had some component.

Short sleeve by preference.

I maybe looking for the proverbial MOAS but it's a wet rainy weekend and maybe someone fancies the challenge or to share their faves

I appreciated my comments and criticism of the above are very much IMO/E but I think they're common to the bigger, sweatier, hairier bear .

i bought one of these last year.
very good quality, and very long body which helps at 6ft 4''.

https://subzero.co.uk/collections/mens- ... 9689821350

Helly Hansen wool baselayer that I bought randomly has been incredibly good.

Check their work wear stuff. I believe it is the same but cheaper

Always found merino too much for anything high intensity - I love Brynje polypropylene mesh ones from Nordic life.

Look very rock horror show and terrify the kids when paired with bib shorts, bit work better than anything else if you're a sweaty bugger.

Edit - just re read your post and had totally missed the t-shirt comment. I've a Montane one that mixes merino with a bit of polyesr and works well.

I've got a DHB merino baselayer that seems pretty nice. I've also got some cheapy Decathlon ones that are for running I recall, but do the trick

Got a couple of these I've been very happy with https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-sho ... mc=8619650

Pricey, but I've found the Patagonia Capilene t shirts good, noticeably better wicking than pure merino.

Entirely synthetic, so maybe not ethically marvelous, but I'm a fan of the planet-x 365 base layers. just had a look, and they seem to be called carnac now Cheap, last for years and wick well so long as you wash them without any fabric conditioner. Might be psychosomatic, but I find the white ones better wicking later and the coloured a touch warmer.

Mmm, if we're looking at synthetic too, I find the Alpkit Vayper very light and non stinky.

Uniqlo? I find the Craft stuff good but I feel the cold.

I maybe looking for the proverbial MOAS

You are, they all have their compromises

Just get a few different ones and rotate to fit the weather

Thanks all, there's some useful suggestions in there, much appreciated. Even from some of them I can tell stuff that I probably don't want to try (Craft for example, I don't feel the cold so much) The Patagonia, Helly and Decathalon stuff (even though the latter is full merino) look like potential options.

Many decades ago I had a Specialised "string vest" and it was great kit if you were just riding and/or had something over the top. It shrank / I got tooo big and it was passed on to a mate. As a hairier bear it really was something to behold when I wore it and definitely doesn't fit into the "more T shirt" category

Although this fits in the chocolate-teapot category:

You are, they all have their compromises

Just get a few different ones and rotate to fit the weather

I know you're understandably opposed to the brynje vests on sartorial grounds, but speaking as another big, extremely sweaty (albeit reasonably hairless) unit, they really can't be beat. They're the only things I've worn that don't go cold and clammy when sodden and seem to do a pretty good job of moving that moisture outwards. So I accept looking like a turd.

Huge Brynje fan here. I have both the short and long sleeve super thermo varieties.

I sometimes wear two baselayers with the Brynje underneath, particularly if I know it's going to be wet

Fairpoints and you're clearly keen / it's a thing that works for you (and others from feedback elsewhere).

If it were just for biking maybe (though the prices are a bit spicey) but I use stuff for biking (less so than I ever used to), walking, climbing, packrafting etc etc and (not least) sitting on my butt (right now in fact with a Howies merino thing). Hence looking at things more towards the T end of the spectrum.

benp1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:09 pm Huge Brynje fan here. I have both the short and long sleeve super thermo varieties.

I sometimes wear two baselayers with the Brynje underneath, particularly if I know it's going to be wet

I think I'd combust / dry out to the shrivelled-scrotum level Stu mentioned elsewhere with 2 baselayers

Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:40 pm

benp1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:09 pm Huge Brynje fan here. I have both the short and long sleeve super thermo varieties.

I sometimes wear two baselayers with the Brynje underneath, particularly if I know it's going to be wet

I think I'd combust / dry out to the shrivelled-scrotum level Stu mentioned elsewhere with 2 baselayers

I wouldn't use 2 baselayers under a midlayer, although I did do that in Lapland

As an example I sometimes use 2 baselayers for watersports if it's cool/mild and I'm not wearing a wetsuit e.g kayaking or paddleboarding. The outer, wet baselayer doesn't sit on my skin so doesn't feel as cold, the Brynje provides a bit of a barrier. Generally only with a thin, very slim fitting baselayer over the top, like an Under Armour heatgear one

edit - I think Brynje do a mesh one made of merino and another one made of a blend with the polypro mesh against your skin and the merino on the outside

I sound like I'm on commission but I'm not They look absolutely ridiculous yet they're fairly popular so they must work I guess

benp1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:59 pm

Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:40 pm

benp1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:09 pm Huge Brynje fan here. I have both the short and long sleeve super thermo varieties.

I sometimes wear two baselayers with the Brynje underneath, particularly if I know it's going to be wet

I think I'd combust / dry out to the shrivelled-scrotum level Stu mentioned elsewhere with 2 baselayers

I wouldn't use 2 baselayers under a midlayer, although I did do that in Lapland

As an example I sometimes use 2 baselayers for watersports if it's cool/mild and I'm not wearing a wetsuit e.g kayaking or paddleboarding. The outer, wet baselayer doesn't sit on my skin so doesn't feel as cold, the Brynje provides a bit of a barrier. Generally only with a thin, very slim fitting baselayer over the top, like an Under Armour heatgear one

edit - I think Brynje do a mesh one made of merino and another one made of a blend with the polypro mesh against your skin and the merino on the outside

I sound like I'm on commission but I'm not They look absolutely ridiculous yet they're fairly popular so they must work I guess

I've already posted above bit totally second what Ben is saying about Brynje - I've found them an absolute game changer, especially under something like a gore windstopper jersey or a paramo.

I sometimes chuck a thin t shirt base layer in my bag to wear over it if I know I'm going to be stopping somewhere indoors on the ride like a pub though!

Altura Thermocool is the best I've used. Really thin but warm, doesn't hold much moisture. Works across a quite wide temps range. Very light and packable too, I have the LS version and pretty much always take it on a trip.

Brynje - I've found them an absolute game changer,

i found them not much different to a planet x cheap one
Good in summer as they wick the sweat away so the top does not cling to you but winter not really different from any other I own

Never really understand why as a cyclist people care about looks, i would never wear any of my cycle gear in public ,without a bike, but on it it either works or it does not i [ and no one even sees your base layer]

Lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:26 pm

Brynje - I've found them an absolute game changer,

i found them not much different to a planet x cheap one
Good in summer as they wick the sweat away so the top does not cling to you but winter not really different from any other I own

Never really understand why as a cyclist people care about looks, i would never wear any of my cycle gear in public ,without a bike, but on it it either works or it does not i [ and no one even sees your base layer]

I only use mine in the winter!

I find under a windproof layer they trap a lot of warmth, move moisture incredibly well and if you vent th by opening a zip they let you dump excess heat quicker than anything else as they're basically made of air.

In true forum style of doing / recommending the complete opposite when Sportspursuit ran a discount for IsoBaa last night I picked up a couple of their thin (150 gsm) T shirts for not much more than one of an equivalent or full-price brand. I like their socks so hope the T's will be similarly nice I know what I said about merino and I'm sorry to have led some of you up the garden path Will have to try some of the other suggestions when I spot a deal and thank you again for your input

Still not going to get an expensive string vest. Sorry / not-sorry

I've various isobaa stuff from SP and it's been pretty good - survived many uses and washes without falling apart over the last 4 years.

Shoutout for Uniqlo Airism.
Their T-Shirts look and feel like normal cotton fare, but wick really well are super quick drying
. Ditto their Airism underwear, which I swear by.
Also off topic-and I swear I'm not sponsored by Uniqlo! -but their Ultralite Down Jacket is one of the best bits of kit I've ever bought.
I've had it for years and paid 50 quid in a Uniqlo sale.
I ve worn it below - 20c in Canada, in pouring rain on various trips, got it covered in mud, scraped it against brambles, used it as a mat and generally treated it like absolute crap, but it still pretty much works..