Hi everyone,

I'm a university student in Glasgow and am starting a project on improving bike-packing for beginners. As bike-packing can be quite daunting to start off, I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions to what they think could be improved in the industry? This could be anything from new kit designs, cheaper equipment, increased comfort, improved bike/kit security.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys

Hi, welcome

I think you need to define what you mean by improve. What do these beginners want to change? Perhaps the best way to find that out would be to ask some people who would like to start bikepacking but are, as you say, daunted. There are problem some curious but inexperience folk hanging around here, but most of the regular posters are, as you might expect, more experienced, and so probably don't see any need for improvement (or maybe they do?!).

I appreciate that this might sound odd and also, that it might just be me .... really, I don't think there's anything difficult about bikepacking. Kit, routes, bikes and information are the best they've ever been. Perhaps any problem if one exists lies with people themselves and their own (usually unfounded) fears and maybe even unwillingness to embrace the ups and the downs.

I think there's a reason that bikepacking might be the preserve of middle aged blokes.

https://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.c ... -gent.html

However, I think helping people grasp a better understanding of the RoW network and the best practice for wildcaming, might help lessen those fears.

I don't think it's an equipment issue. It's more about skills and confidence. That would include map reading, route planning, weather, river crossings and campcraft. For many folks, simply pointing them at a copy of Eric Langmuirs Mountaincraft and Leadership will be enough but many others would benefit from a more hands-on training experience. There will be a few on here who benefitted from being in the Scouts or a similar organisation but there are also folk making a (sort of) living from training courses.

Maybe, and this also reflects issues we've had this year with poor tourism experiences, there is a need for some sort of outdoor education in the school curriculum.

Of course, all of this is predicated on the idea that "improving" bikepacking means making it something more folk would want to do.

The whole premise of "improving bikepacking" (mountain bikepacking not gravel/road) makes me shudder.

Oh! I replied in "Feed The Bear" . FWIW here's what I said, probably already covered above:

Nice to hear from you and very best wishes with the project. What could possibly be more interesting to look into than bikepacking?

This is absolutely not offered as a flippant answer, but you may find that responses from This Place focus much more on "state of mind" rather than physical equipment. It'll be interesting to see what you get .

Have a look around while you're here, some answers might crop up quicker than you think!

Having said that, here is a tongue-in-cheek reply from me: "get rid of the industry, we can bikepack with whatever we have to hand" .

'Reg'

^^ Please disregard the remarks of the gaffer tape king of bikepacking

i think folk would benefit from
1) reassurance you can have a go with a rucksac and a shelter ,bag and mat - everything else is pretty much optional
2) Shorter introductory loops - I dont think folk want to start off with a 100 mile off road epic
3) perhaps a website where experienced types take new riders out - i am not sure how many on here would volunteer for this as there are likely insurance and legal implications of this re the route and where you camp for those who are not in scotland
As noted above many on here are not massively interested in promoting the activity to the masses as rcent events show th masses are not always respectful of the countrysde and tbh I doubt any of us do it to meet folk and experience crowds

Slightly surprised nobody's suggested "find some way to stop [companion] snoring", or "exorcise Reg's rain god powers".

I think (in a similar vein to Stu Edit - plus Reg and Lazarus) part of the problem(if there is one) is people think they have to have the specific bike, bike bags, shelter, sleeping gear, cooking kit etc.

All you need is the inclination and whatever gear you have to hand. The whole industry and some of the culture that has sprung up around riding your bike and kipping in a ditch is more of a hindrance than a help, IMO.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:23 pm ^^ Please disregard the remarks of the gaffer tape king of bikepacking

Hah! I'm making a big effort to be nice to our guest!

Maybe 'improving access to bikepacking' would be a better title?

Colin makes a very good point about education in schools. Not simply giving them a 70l rucksack and sending them on a DoE but real education from an early age.

We also increasingly live in a society focused on absolute inclusion and entitlement - perhaps 2 things which lead to problems when dealing with a finite resource such as 'outside' ... I think Jon highlights this point with people reluctance to encourage too much.

Jacob97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:13 pm increased comfort, improved bike/kit security.

Those are interesting points.

Comfort - many on Here actively relish dis-comfort to an extent. It's part of the "experience" / challenge. Getting back from a trip where you've overcome some horrible situation is very satisfying: soaked for 3 days but not caring, engaging that slug on your nose in the middle of the night in a conversation rather than squashing it out of hand, realising that the only way on is across a 1km bog but just getting on with it, etc.

Security - again for many on Here, security is in the mind. Also our bikes/kit will almost always be by our side or outside the shop/cafe so a deterrent for a few seconds is all we need.

This is fun! Thanks for livening our Thursday up. I'm sure you'll have fun too, trying to make some logical sense of the various ravings - maybe it's not possible .

First of all you need to define what you mean by bikepacking - do you mean the mainstream bike manufacturer marketing definition where you have to wear a plaid shirt, dangle your mug, ride a drop-barred gravel bike on less than ideal terrain, display your Rab logos with pride and 'gram your pictures from around the campfire or do you mean the older grassroots definition where you take the bike you have, strap some stuff to it and go for an overnight ride across mixed terrain?

^ such cynicism

"get rid of the industry, we can bikepack with whatever we have to hand"

Current supply chain situations plus Brexit might grant your wishes Reg. Watch the MYOG forum develop nicely : )


Anyway.. IMO.. Bikepacking is easier if you come to it from a backpacking/hiking/climbing background. Bringing that experience into your cycling makes it all feel easy and natural. I'm not sure if that leads you down any thought paths that are of any use though.

From a product POV, and I say this as someone who earns a living in the bike industry, we just don't need any more products unless they are more durable, sustainable or locally-made than the products they replace. So I'd look at improving bikepacking via developing local industry and recycled materials. Bags are great for this.

I agree with others on the comfort/the lack of it point. It's not meant to be easy and comfortable, it's meant to be valuable as an experience. The more people who realise that comfort does not bring valued experience the better. More comfort (relatively speaking) may come from lessons learned though. If it's a tech/app project, my bikepacking could be improved if I had a way of noting and re-visiting my lessons then sharing those lessons in a fast-access, easy-digested way that files tips by category and allows user voting up or down. It's good to learn from mistakes, better to learn from mistakes others made before you do

The idea that will get me barred on here perhaps - make a link between charging points and camping areas to develop E-bike-packing. E-bikes carry a load very effectively and local travel might be enhanced by glamping-batter charging ("glamping-batter"! er, glamping-battery charging) facilities that are an easy add on to most camping sites. Or, a charging-friendly pub with a known basic camping site nearby. Is that still 'bikepacking'? I don't care tbh, if it gets more people out of camper vans and cars and develops some self-reliance and adventure in people I'm in favour of it.

PaulB2 beat me to it. The first thing you need to do is define what people believe "bikepacking" to be.

Heh heh, ooh you old cynic you Mr Paul

I was just watching a Shug piece on Youtube (hammock stuff) and one phrase seems particularly appropriate:

"... the worst trips make the best stories ..."

glamping-batter

ooo errrr

psling wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:03 pm PaulB2 beat me to it. The first thing you need to do is define what people believe "bikepacking" to be.

Maybe it's the opposite - who cares what bikepacking 'is', let people find what they want in the combination of bike, camping gear and open countryside and develop that interest and curiosity somehow?

So, Monkey, to answer the gentleman's question, you think "the industry" should aim to improve bikepacking for beginners by offering them a really horrible time .

(Poor chap'll be back soon and wonder what on earth he's let himself in for)

When Jacob asked whether he'd be okay to post this question, I did say that he'd get lots of interesting answers ... once again I'm not left disappointed

who cares what bikepacking 'is', let people find what they want in the combination of bike, camping gear and open countryside and develop that interest and curiosity somehow?

I think the definition is more in regard to the OP question James.

jameso wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:03 pm ^ such cynicism

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:03 pm Heh heh, ooh you old cynic you Mr Paul

Guilty as charged, m'luds.

For full disclosure, I own a plaid shirt (though never worn it on a bike), ridden a gravel bike across inappropriate terrain (Arkose, thanks James) and a Rab down jacket (one of my favourite bits of kit), and I've posted bikepacking pictures on instagram (though never of a campfire). I've never dangled a mug because it always struck me as a bad idea in UK weather, the sheep sub standard factor didn't occur to me until it was pointed out on the forum.

My point hidden under the somewhat tonque in cheek cynicism wasn't so much that you need to define what bikepacking is but that as a student needing to analyse replies correctly you need to make sure that you're using the same definition as the people who answer your questions.

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:08 pm So, Monkey, to answer the gentleman's question, you think "the industry" should aim to improve bikepacking for beginners by offering them a really horrible time .

(Poor chap'll be back soon and wonder what on earth he's let himself in for)

Sort of

No, the industry thing is awkward to explain. I'm referring (sort of) to the feedback loop of marketing, image, sales, latest gear, you must have this, this bike is a BIKEPACKING BIKE etc etc. Can't entirely blame a (sector) of the industry for trying to make a profit out of it but (kind of what Paul mentions) BP just doesn't have to be the image that is all too frequently touted in some sectors.

Bike. Ditch. Sorted

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:12 pm

who cares what bikepacking 'is', let people find what they want in the combination of bike, camping gear and open countryside and develop that interest and curiosity somehow?

I think the definition is more in regard to the OP question James.

Sure, I meant, if the OP thinks further than bikepacking as a definition and onto the outdoors, travel and bikes in general (with bikepacking as a trend within that) it might open it up how we think about or look for opportunities in it, in an interesting way. So many great ideas are simply taking something from one place and putting into a different context.

So, er, what's the summary so far then?

Beginners can do what many of us did: strap some basics to a bike and do a few rides on not-rigidly-planned routes in fairly reasonable weather to a nearby wood where they can try out TLS/LNT. This doesn't help "the industry" of course, except maybe in a long-term way with a new potential customer.

Or, as said above, offer improved educational help: TLS/LNT info, navigation, beginners courses like Stu offered. Doesn't help industry much either in the money-making stakes, other than creating a convert and potential buyer later. Enrol beginners on a philosophy course perhaps.

Not many further gear/kit/etc changes from the industry will make it any easier for a beginner. (Quite like James's E-bike provision though TBH).

?