Most of my recent MTB experience has been wet, windy and moderately cold.
I've ended up bloody cold as a result of shell jackets not living up to there promises.
I'm thinking something like a Buffalo shirt is the answer.
Any users? Are they too hot for riding?
Cheers

The only time I've worn buffalo for biking had been inside the Arctic circle in the winter

Way too hot otherwise

Something like a rab vapour rise alpine lite is a moderate climate version of it, and excellent

I have a buffalo and for bikepacking it’s just too hot, but maybe sitting around camp it’s would be ok,if not a bit bulky.

I use a paramo valez light smock which you can vent when you warm up if needed. I supplement this with a paramo insulated vest/gilet on the bike. Makes a nice and adaptable laying system on and off the bike.

In the cold, I try not to sweat and as the paramo smock is not a hard shell but stil wind and waterproof, even though a little heavier than some hard shell it really does breath and keep you warmer when needed.

I need to ditch my shell jacket. I'm a sweaty sod. Nothing is breathable enough and I'm getting too cold these days if I stop. If I keep riding I'm ok but you need to stop at some point.
Maybe a Buffalo isn't the answer but a windpfoof rather than waterproof is.
I was looking at the Active Lite shirt and thought it might do.

People sometimes talk about 'warm and wet', in theory it makes sense but in pracrice it's hard to achieve and for most of us, once we're wet, we're going to get cold quite quickly. Pertex / pile certainly has a place but my experience says that it's not multi-day bikepacking.

Rather than ditching the waterproof, have you thought about finding one with better venting options? Long 'pit' zips work very well, as do lage pockets with a mesh lining. Also, how many clothes are you wearing beneath your waterproof? If you're prone to sweating could you not reduce what's beneath?

Try a primaloft/similar insulated gilet? I swear by them. The good ones can get proper wet on the outside (for a while, not all day etc) and still keep your jersey/base layer pretty much dry - the effect of being warm underneath with a good amount of loft depth to keep the wet at bay.

Otherwise, Vaporise or Polartec Alpha. I have a Buffalo Bely Jacket, it's lighter than the std Buffalo but it's still a bit too warm on the bike.
With you on waterproofs being useless for anything but riding in the rain - but even then I'll want an insulating layer under it if out for more than an hour or 2.

As is traditional on Buffalo threads might I just say that I have had my mountain shirt for 83 years and it's still as good as the day I bought it

For bikepacking they're too bulky really; for a couple of hours out in sub-zero temperatures they're great and for standing around marshalling at winter motorsport events they're brilliant.

IMO riders (unless they are racing/riding against the clock) need to manage their clothing. You say you are hot when riding but too cold when stopped. Well, strip off some layers when riding, add them when you stop! A good breathable base layer that doesn't get clammy will help, changing into thinner gloves once your hands have warmed up will help, gilets are useful layers, a lightweight windproof you can throw on over an insulating layer is surprisingly useful. If it is wet, wet, wet, and you're too hot then remove mid layers from under your waterproof. Problem is, most of us are in too much of a hurry to stop and remove / add layers of clothing when we're riding!
And we're all different in the riding hot / riding cold / amount we sweat stakes.

Buffalo is too hot for me. Rab might work if your work rate is fairly constant i guess.

I used to use a paramo velez. Really suited me, ive temporarily outgrown it but its a great bit of kit.

Currently use a baselayer and a softshell from endura and add / remove other layers as needed.

I'm a sweaty sod too, I only have to look at a hill to start perspiring. Stu's advice is good, pit zips and mesh pockets help a lot, I bought an Outdry Jacket after recommendations on here and really like it. I my experience I found having a wicking base layer that suites you to be very important. After my much loved 20 year old Helly Hansen top died I went through 4 tops in a matter of months before finding one I liked which came from Decathlon. The others were either too hot, actually seemed to make you sweat or didn't wick at all despite being advertised as being able to do so.

-5 or less for the Buffalo....
Plus its very heavy and takes a long time to dry if it gets wet. I once used mine in about 3 degrees in a several hour downpour of sleet and rain. I was soaked to the skin but warm until I stopped when I quickly got very cold. So it does have its uses but also limitations. Light or medium fleece and paramo far superior. I'm quite tempted by the paramo windproof outer / fleece inner which is apparently also waterproof. Buffalo tech lite gillet is a useful bit of kit worthy of consideration for a drag on and get warm quick type of thing.

An buffalo active lite or tecmax shirt would be suitable.

Following on from this any good shouts for insulated gilets. Something along the lines of Pedal Ed Tokaido vest (which caught an ad for the other day) but not quite so fancy

Sweaty bastard here too. Best thing I’ve done is ditch merino, it gets wet, stays wet and then gets cold.

Patagonia capeline baselayers all the way for me now.

I use a Paramo Velez Lite and its superb for most of the year. It can be a bit hot in proper hot wet summer days but most of the time it's brilliant. I can ride all day in the rain in it and finish the day dry on top. It is not at at all shell like so I am happy to wear it around as a windproof or when camping. My Favorite top is covered in stick on patches and has been worn for thousands of commuting and touring miles. It still keeps me dry.

As a reference, I usually 'run hot' and When bike packing I ride at a reasonable pace - certainly not ITT pace but not dawdling either.

Some people hate paramo, some say it's too hot, too expensive, etc, and some won't try it - but it works for me.

I've tried it.

It doesn't work for me.

I have one
It works for me

It's not that I'm too hot when riding just too sweaty.
Long since decided merino and cycling do't mix.
In the right weather a gillet and jersey is best. I don't have too much trouble road riding unless it's biblically wet. It's in the mountains I have problems.
Off the bike I'm usually in wool or G1000 and that works s treat. It's a pity a Swanni is no good for riding. Stu the problem I find with venting jackets is that the rain then gets in and you're wet anyway.
I've had tons of jackets and never really found one that really works past a couple of hours of wet. Unless they are out on their first trip - then they kind of work.

Jamesh wrote:Following on from this any good shouts for insulated gilets. Something along the lines of Pedal Ed Tokaido vest (which caught an ad for the other day) but not quite so fancy

Light, pricey but warm(ish) - Endura FS260SL
Less light, mid price, fair bit warmer and reversible - Endura Flipjack gilet. Montane Prism is also good at this £ level.
Light, packable, just right warmth, cheap as 2 rounds of fish and chips in this area - Decathlon Forclaz trekking gilet, it's brilliant for the money - functionally as good as any of the others aside from the FS260SL.

lune ranger wrote:I've had tons of jackets and never really found one that really works past a couple of hours of wet. Unless they are out on their first trip - then they kind of work.

Same here, not a big sweater but after a few hours in the rain I'll be wet from sweat and condensation anyway. I've just accepted being a bit wet and got kit that slows the rate of wetting through (and the associated cooling) and keeps me warm. For a trip where I may be riding all day in the rain, that's a thin synthetic LS base layer (Altura thermocool is brilliant and packs so small) and LS jersey, maybe a merino vest, a primaloft gilet, a decent waterproof and a primaloft jacket to layer up in case it gets grim going down long hills. Waterproof shorts or trousers, etc.

found one that really works past a couple of hours of wet

Outdry. Keeps me dry continually, no matter how long I'm out for.

On the recent winter bivy where we graced with horrendous weather and storm Callum, I seemed to be wearing relatively few layers compared with those around me, but I found they worked really well

Marmot thermo powerdry baselayer
Adidas Terrex skyclimb vest, non membrane soft shell back with a primaloft front
Columbia outdry over the top

I was never boiling and did cool down when waiting around for others, but I was mostly spot on.

I rarely wear a full primaloft type gilet for riding. I do wear a primaloft fronted one or polartec alpha ones (Rab strata or Crikey, how much brevet insulated). I find my other insulated gilets too warm for normal riding unless it's Baltic and I'm going slow

I have one and have always enjoyed splashing in puddles so actively look to go out if the weather is looking feisty and it is my go to for those expected storms. It does get hot but I just zip the sides right up and fold it over itself like a crop top which gets too much when going uphill outside of winter but the breeze to my tits makes it manageable. With a base layer and windproof on top I went out in deepest welsh winter at -5 plus strong winds and core was comfortable. This gives the option of just base layer if the weather turns too hot for crop top but as it is very bulky so I would only take it when I expect to be wearing it most of the ride. Any other clothes have felt like you are fighting to keep the weather out but this embraces it. I also like not having to faff constantly repacking layers in awkward bikepacking baggage as the sun goes in and out or equally bad slowly getting colder but not wanting to stop only for the sun to come out again. Only done single night trips with it as the prospect of a week of cold damp feet over winter with no way of warming them up has never felt like a good plan, but I have found it less disgusting to put on damp than other synthetic clothes for that second day.

I love my Montane Prism jacket, warm (light quilting), waterproof (pertex shell) ideal for changing into once I arrive at a spot, packs down into it's own pocket and can double as a pillow, for riding in I use a Madison Flux jacket, super breathable and light.

waterproof (pertex shell)

Surely, more water resistant that actually waterproof?

Aye true, I have been out in mine in all weathers, takes a few hours before it seeps in and I keep it Nikwaxed. To be honest waterproof is a waste, get a good wind proof and layer up.

To be honest waterproof is a waste

Nah, after 2 days of solid rain backed by high winds, I want waterproof - the more waterproof the better