Yet again - Leave No Trace.

[Ray Young]

Digging holes to put a fire in can be problematical in some areas. If the soil top layer has a high content of dead organic plant material and it's dry then this can combust or even smoulder for days before igniting.
Didn't someone post a picture a few years ago of a moorland fire they started? Can't remember if it was from a camp fire or a stove tipping over.

[whitestone]

But this is more about a company promoting (not necessarily consciously) behaviour that can affect all those of us operating under the radar. If you don't come from the "leave no trace" philosophy then such material will just serve to reinforce your behaviour because it's seen as "normal" not just by you but by a commercial concern.

Fires and generally loutish behaviour have led to the camping ban in areas of the Lomond and Trossachs NP. Yes, it's not (I hope) "us" but it affects us and everyone else who behaved and continues to behave responsibly. The countryside at night is dark, very dark, any light source stands out like a sore thumb and just acts to highlight your presence.

There was the Bikepacking book that appeared a couple of years ago that also had lots of campfires pictured. This is part of my review:

The biggest sin of the book though is the use of open fires. If there is one thing that is likely to cause problems with landowners it is this. One has only to look at the resulting camping ban in the Loch Lomond National Park to see how those in/with authority act in response. I rode past a popular overnighting site in the Yorkshire Dales a few weeks ago and the scars of camp fires were all around, these almost certainly weren't made by bikepackers but even responsible users will end up being grouped with the irresponsible ones. With the variety of modern stove systems there is simply no need for open fires. The use of open fires really does go against the "leave no trace" principle that most bikepackers adhere to.

In a wider sense this is very much an opportunity missed ... the encouragement of campfires in the open countryside is impossible to justify.

[Bearbonesnorm]

the encouragement of campfires in the open countryside is impossible to justify.

Bingo

[Asposium]

Suppose this topic is another for marketing bollox vs reality

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I used to like a small, contained 'LNT' camp fire from time to time. Was a bit of a firebug as a kid. And there's something good about a social around a fire but I read about how the heat kills everything in the soil over a larger area and realised there is no LNT with fires. Not saying they're wholly wrong at all, just that I'd only do it in an area that has facilities for it, or using something to prevent any damage (which means it's really unlikely in most places). All that aside, for a brand to promote themselves via promoting campfires is irresponsible.

This resonates with me; as I kid, camping in remote parts of Scotland, I had that basic, elemental fascination with fire that I think is dormant in most of us, and enjoyed cooking everything from sausages to fish caught by our rods from nearby rivers. We certainly didn't LNT, and doing so is not easy, but I think we tried to minimise the damage, in areas where it would have minimal impact. I still love a fire, wether it is in my garden or on a camping trip, but appreciate the need to keep it under control - use existing fire pits, or on the beach, etc. Never do fires whilst bikepacking as I am usually on my own and it is all too much effort!

[fatbikephil]

As I was trundling up Glen Tilt on Friday eve, I came a cross a bloke with his 3 lassies camped at the Tarf suspension bridge. They had all biked up which is good going as the girls all looked less than 12 and its 10 miles of steady climbing to that point. But he had a fire going, albeit to cook on. I briefly contemplated having a word but bottled it on the basis that I would just come across as a grumpy git (well I am) and it may put off 3 future bikepackers. This kind of stuff should be taught in schools I reckon....

Oh and in the world of canoeing, the problem is much worse apparently....

[johnnystorm]

This kind of stuff should be taught in schools I reckon....

/Checks factors that affect league tables...


No chance!

[johnnystorm]

This kind of stuff should be taught in schools I reckon....

/Checks factors that affect league tables...


No chance!

On a serious note, it was Bronze D of E Practice this weekend. Passed about half a dozen fire scars along the way, some in particularly stupid places. "Can we have a fire sir?" NO!

[Jurassic]

Oh and in the world of canoeing, the problem is much worse apparently....

Yeah, as a semi-active paddler I can confirm that a camp fire is de rigueur for many participants. I would say though that the use of fireboxes is pretty widespread which limits the impact somewhat. To be honest I don't think that the problem stems from "outdoorsy folks" (who tend to have a vested interest in not making a mess), it's from casual "townie" campers who don't know any better or simply don't care. Education is a good starting point I suppose and not promoting open fires like the ad in the original post would tie in with this.

[fatbikephil]

This kind of stuff should be taught in schools I reckon....

/Checks factors that affect league tables...


No chance!

Yeah pretty much what we were discussing on Saturday eve although they manage it in Sweden.....
My pals were saying a big group of canoeists had pitched up the night before and had a massive fire ont he nice mown grass provided for the fishermen by the estate. Needless to say the gillie was not best pleased. Maybe we should write an open letter to the Scottish / English / Welsh Landowners federation (or whatever they are called these days) saying something along the lines of - "its not us, its a small minority of w******"

[Jurassic]

My pals were saying a big group of canoeists had pitched up the night before and had a massive fire ont he nice mown grass provided for the fishermen by the estate.

[Blair512]

Had a cracking fire at breakfast time this morning!

[fatbikephil]

[gairym]

Great colours in that photo!

Enhanced at all or pure skill/luck?

[Blair512]

Enhanced I'm afraid, the flames and meths came out really good but the rest of it was dull so just needed brightening up a bit.

[gairym]

No shame in that, looks great!

[Pirahna]

Sorry for the Facebook link (I hope it goes where it's supposed to), Coed y Brenin had some visitors determined to leave a trace

https://www.facebook.com/CoedyBreninFor ... 7654862338

[Ray Young]

The mentality of some people is unbelievable!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Trouble is and as we know, people are surrounded the the romantic images of a life outside and all that entails. The responsibilty might ultimately stop with dicks like these but it begins somewhere else.

[NorwayCalling]

Sorry for the Facebook link (I hope it goes where it's supposed to), Coed y Brenin had some visitors determined to leave a trace

https://www.facebook.com/CoedyBreninFor ... 7654862338

This is not "outdoor people" but urban idiots driving on mass to get pissed up "In the countyside". We have loads of this in South Wales with the same types of idiots driving all of 10 miles to do the same.

As for the comments - use a local camp site and put something into the local accompany - well you can't. The noise and disruption wouldn't be allowed for one thing, and nor would a horde of pissed up chavs be allowed to stay either.

So where can these people go to do this...that is the real question? And trust me, they will do this regardless.

[Bearlegged]

So where can these people go to do this...that is the real question?

I nominate Swindon.

[voodoo_simon]

Sorry for the Facebook link (I hope it goes where it's supposed to), Coed y Brenin had some visitors determined to leave a trace

https://www.facebook.com/CoedyBreninFor ... 7654862338

To think there is a bothy not far from there!

[Dave Barter]

So where can these people go to do this...that is the real question?

I nominate Swindon.

Seconded

[voodoo_simon]

So where can these people go to do this...that is the real question?

I nominate Swindon.

Seconded

Need to visit Swindon before the masses get there and spoil it

[rando nomad]

I used to do a lot of sea kayaking out in British Columbia. The company I worked for had a retail store and a kayaking school. We'd teach everything from the basics of paddling up to expedition skill level stuff. The folks that ran the courses were all LNT types who had studied under the NOLS folks in the US. Every spring we'd take new folks from the retail side out on a 3 day kayak trip off of Vancouver. Lots of lovely little islands with campground etc and few other people. We'd never have a fire, and it was always funny to hear the new folks every year ask/talk about "when are we building a fire" and me and a couple other "old timers' would glance at each other and wait for the lecture from the senior instructors about how our classes are LNT, we don't do fires for the following reasons and you don't need a fire to stay warm, etc. The look on the new folks faces was priceless!