try contacting the tomato directly, info@tomato.to.it

windjammer wrote:

Richard G wrote:I still have no idea how long it's going to take me, but I've got 7 days which I'm hoping will be enough (it would be at my usual fitness, but that's all gone now).

took me 6 days on 29x3 tyres and carrying 19 stone up the hills

Nice. :D

As for Mike's question. I'm flying out on the 31st from Gatwick (to Turin).

Whilst the thread has meandered into the getting there area, can anyone who has done it clarify the train arrangements from Nice to Turin? James' email says there are 2 options, firstly the run of the mill SNCF train that goes the long way round via the flatlands, this is pre-bookable and takes about 7 hours. Secondly there is a more direct SNCF service that is more touristy and winds through the mountains via Cuneo but cannot be pre-booked so you have to go to Nice and buy a ticket there, this takes 5 hours. My question is, in what state do bikes have to be to be allowed on. I've heard various tales of having to box the bike on certain types of train and others having hooks that you hang the wheel on in the carriage. When I did the Transpyrenees, we took 3 trains in France to get to the start, each had a different way of taking bikes!

Whilst the thread has meandered into the getting there area, can anyone who has done it clarify the train arrangements from Nice to Turin?

In general, https://torino-nice.weebly.com/updates-and-news.html - see search tip at top of page.

RE state of bike, in Italy, regional trains take bikes ridden-on. In France you may need to take the wheels off and toestrap to the bike, cover with bin bags. I've used the Train des Pignes fron Nice to Provence and others in that area with the bike packed like that, it's an easy way to have train pack-ability stuffed into a framebag. I think the Train des Merveilles (Tende-Roya valley) is the same. In France they prefer that you book the bike on in advance but some basic French and a willingness to pay on the day once on-board has worked fine previously.

I wish there was more consistency, but that plus what's on the site is what we have so far.

jameso wrote:
Just to grab attention away from (admittedly interesting) gearing geekery

There's a possibility of a spot in the hills within striking distance of Nice where we can have a beer, food and shower - in that order of priority probably. Maybe fire too. If it goes ahead it'll be supported (funded) by a welcome sponsor and happen at a campsite or similar, ie staffed with some facilities. A bit un-bikepacking purism but you know, Party Pace Cos it's Not a Race. And I can't afford to drink and eat my day 6 appetite on the sea front in Nice so this seems like a more fitting end to the ride.

Thoughts, welcome the idea or not?

I'd be very much up for that. Especially as it's my turn to buy you a beer :)

I'm clearly working too hard as I only just noticed this post.

I am booked to ride and have a room sorted at the Tomato. Driving down with the wife, who will then drive on to Garda for a week of horse riding. She will drive down and met me in Nice after 7 days. Good plan to allow some flexibility and a broom wagon if the wheels really fall off.

Im still debating the CX bike with 34/40 gearing or the MTB, which still has a triple. All this talk of not enough gearing has me concerned having just had 6 months of the bike following surgery.

Dorset Gravel Dash will be an easy (ish) warm up for me.

Cheers Laurence look forward to it.

sbcoombs wrote:Im still debating the CX bike with 34/40 gearing or the MTB, which still has a triple. All this talk of not enough gearing has me concerned having just had 6 months of the bike following surgery.

I think that the conversation about gearing is important but gearing will only get you so far.

I did the TNR the first year and now realise that there is no gearing able to compensate for being overweight and in sh1t shape

I was running very little kit on a rigid carbon 29er with a triple chainset (22/32/42 and 11-36) and I still quit after four days as I simply couldn't get my sorry fat ass up and over them there hills fast enough to get the thing done in the time I had had l available to me.

That's why I'm hoping to get back there this year (eBikes are encouraged right?*)

* I jest of course

On flatter ground sheer stubbornness had gotten me to the end of many routes/events but in the mountains there's nowhere to hide!

Following on from what Gairy has said up there ^ ... I think it's the duration of the climbs that does for you. I can only recall one steep road section, it was still rideable but you felt it There are some other steep sections but they're 'off-road' and really a push, so gearing has little bearing. Perhaps the 'key' is to simply accept that for the next 3, 4 or 5 hours you will be climbing. That will be followed by a very long descent, then the climbing will begin again - it's a simple, unbreakable cycle.

I think packing with a TLS mindset makes a big difference too as for much of the trip, gravity is not on your side.

^ Very true. There's climbs that gain 1700m or so in one go and it's probably 45% uphill, 46% downhill and 9% flat overall. (1% more DH as it ends by the sea!). Climbs that would be 1.5hrs tops on a light road bike can become >3hrs with a bit of fatigue and bags on the bike.

The route will have a couple more flatter sections this year. As much as I love the mountains I think a bit of respite is a good thing, so between Little Peru and the Tende will have 1200m of 2 'minor cols' taken out and there's an easier route between Col de Turini and Nice (more roads, less elevation gain - or use the 50km descent option that has zero climbing). It leaves all the significant climbs in but also leaves you a bit more fresh overall hopefully.

jameso wrote:The route will have a couple more flatter sections this year. As much as I love the mountains I think a bit of respite is a good thing, so between Little Peru and the Tende will have 1200m of 2 'minor cols' taken out and there's an easier route between Col de Turini and Nice (more roads, less elevation gain - or use the 50km descent option that has zero climbing). It leaves all the significant climbs in but also leaves you a bit more fresh overall hopefully.

Sounds sensible, though I'll miss the tiny little village of Valdieri with its empty fine dining restaurant that Cyril found for us the first year. But not sharing the single track road climb with the boy racer car rally going up to the Madonna del Colletto on the Sunday to get there the second year (We were a day later the year before).


Gratuitous pic of some handsome devil at Madonna del Colletto from 2ndTNR

(Cracking descent from there into the village). Yeah, I know I could always still do that and Colle delle Goderie climbs anyway but, let's be honest, I'm not going to

Yeah Valdieri is nice, debated leaving it in but it'll be there as an option. If anything I'm hoping skipping those two climbs makes doing the VdS section more likely for more riders. Or getting to Molini pool even.

I did also think of suggesting taking the hike/push a bike sections if a break from pedalling uphill is needed, but maybe not the most welcome or smart idea : ) I wonder if Max's rough stuff book reprint will do much for the 'popularity' (maybe wrong word!) of those 2 options?

It's hard training for 20000m of climbing when you live in Norfolk... going for a boxers training schedule, train fat, then lose all the wright just before event by riding around in a foil shell-suit arrangement!

Really looking forward to this..

It's hard training for 20000m of climbing when you live in Norfolk...

Or the edge of The Fens

@Scud/BRG - Have you considered turbomasochism?

I find dropping my old 26" Cadex onto the turbo with highest resistance and then upping the gears onto the 48T front ring and working through the cassette (32-11) to be a semi-reasonable substitute. Getting the front wheel up a good way so it feels like I'm on the incline and using the upper body muscles like I would on a climb.

I find it's tougher than riding actual hills because you have to be mentally disciplined to stick at it. What it doesn't prepare you for is loose or wet surfaces.

Greetz

S.

@scattamah.

I have literally just bought a new slinky turbo, and have been beasting myself with the Sufferfest 2 hour climbing vid, that and a diet of squats and leg presses, and can see some improvement, plus i tend to ride a singlespeed CX bike most of the time, and have over winter increased the front ring as i've got stronger, which seems good too, thanks for advice.

End of tour party sounds like a great idea. Need to check that I have actually registered- not seen any emails yet...

hello, new to the party and it will be my first TNR,

where are people bivvying each night? Are there particularly good spots, or find a town and a bed, i guess the idea is to sleep at the bottom and not high up in the mountains?

it looks mtb and cx will see a fair distrubition as well, are you going full sus if you are on a mtb and what are the choice of tyres for CX and MTBs?

thanks for the advice.

where are people bivvying each night?

Stop when you've had enough for the day and lie down in an out of the way spot. Most people have more than enough schedules and timetables in their lives ... embrace the freedom for down that path lies adventure.

i guess the idea is to sleep at the bottom and not high up in the mountains?

Depends on conditions - sometimes the valley bottom will be colder.

sero wrote:hello, new to the party and it will be my first TNR,

where are people bivvying each night? Are there particularly good spots, or find a town and a bed, i guess the idea is to sleep at the bottom and not high up in the mountains?

it looks mtb and cx will see a fair distrubition as well, are you going full sus if you are on a mtb and what are the choice of tyres for CX and MTBs?

thanks for the advice.

Welcome along ...

Bivi spots - wild camping is illegal in France and Italy but tolerated if done with care and sense. It's best we don't end up with 'popular' spots. Out of sight and out of mind is a better approach and there's no problem finding sensible places along most of the route. Very much agree with bearbonesnorm's post above also.

Tyres - large and fast is good, no need for a lot of tread.

cheers for the advice guys,

i will probably be asking questions, so thanks in advance, as i am new in bikepacking, though did a fair bit of mtbiking and road riding.

do people tend to take tents and cooking gear on this ride or just bivi and finding restaurants/cafes on the way?

it looks the route isn't that remote. is this a fair judgement?

also, i have seen people talk about train back to torino. i have done the nice-ventimiglia leg a couple of times with a bike and there are no issues with taking a bike on without reservation and as a whole bike, no need to take wheels off or anything. i have done this during milano- sanremo weekend last 2 years and everyone going back to Nice area does this journey, so the train is full of bikes but there were no issues. i am not sure on the second leg from ventimiglia- torino though, as this is a faster train so will probably have a restricted bike space.

Thanks for the train use feedback, always useful.

do people tend to take tents and cooking gear on this ride or just bivi and finding restaurants/cafes on the way?

Both, depends on your preferences and bearing in mind the point above about camping. There's so much good food on offer (unless you're Dave B - http://phased.co.uk/the-first-torino-nice-rally/ ). Personally I'd find a tent and full cooking kit would be a ride-killer on a hilly route like this but others have ridden it with full 4 pannier touring set-ups. You have a 'summer' to try things out : )

it looks the route isn't that remote. is this a fair judgement?

It can feel uncomfortably remote when high up in bad weather although in terms of supplies etc you're rarely more than 2 hours in normal conditions from a village or town (that has no food or B+Bs, see link above!). It's not a wilderness route but equally it's not one to underestimate - it's the Alps and all that go with it.

Depends on the tent I'd say. Some of us have rather light tent setups.

Me too, 850g, still - take a tent and the other comforts creep in with it : ) The rally covers ground where imo the options are either a lovely bivi out with all the stars and views at dawn, or a nice gite / B+B and a few beers. Tent is (personally) neither one or the other (edit - irrelevant though, just my opinion that I should leave out of it)

I also think wild camping in that area is easier to get away with if there's say 3 or 4 of you bivied in a quiet spot but 3 or 4 tents are more noticed? I'm just being cautious or protective though - Oregon Outback syndrome.

I also think wild camping in that area is easier to get away with if there's say 3 or 4 of you bivied in a quiet spot but 3 or 4 tents are more noticed? I'm just being cautious or protective though - Oregon Outback syndrome.

Ooh yes, certainly a route that lends itself to stealthy progression and true trampage.