Having woken at 4 this morn to immense lower back pain and not being able to move for 40mins I managed to get to the docs today and he suggested two things. .find a good yoga/ pilates class and look at the way I ride by getting a bike fit

So anyone know of a proper bike fit that they can recommend preferably in the Midlands area?

I know that the Specialized Concept stores in Brum and Stafford do them, though not done it myself to know if they're any good.

Not quite the same as your problem

I used to get a dull ache in my lower back after cycling for sometime.
For sometime I thought the ache was brought about by a lack of back strength.
Started seeing a physio
They advised the pain was actually brought about by a lack of mobility of my back.
Over several month we worked on the problem
Since then no problems

So, maybe find a sports physio who can help with back mobility

I'd second a physio ... remember my knee? They sorted that out and it wasn't evening anything to do with my knee.

Deffo a good (private) physio Mike ... and learn the Psoas stretch and always do it gently and slowly

and get a good rolling pin

Not exactly Midlands but not a million miles away, Brian Rourke in Stoke are a top class frame builder, built the Guy Martin land speed bike, and for me what sets them apart from the concept store computer based systems such as Retul, is that they use traditional methods and will take account of the type of riding you actually do rather than a 1 size firs all roadie fit which doesn't really relate to the sit up and beg off road position. You need to be prepared to spend though, if you're lucky it could be just stem length saddle position or bar width but it could run to crank length, or even a new frame. (Dibs on the Ti Stooge)

http://www.veloatelier.co.uk/tablet/index.html

Smarter than the average bike shop, but more personable than some 'studios'.

I recommend a physio. A good one will work out what's wrong with you and then prescribe the appropriate torture / treatment / exercises. You want a good one though as they can vary in quality and (to some extent) specialism - though you might not need a cycling specific one.

My last visit introduced me to "self-massage". I asked if I should get a roller. She replied, no, a solid tennis ball was sufficient and then showed me how to hurt myself with one by rolling it around under my calf with my (not insignificant) body weight on it. Manalive it smarts Ankle / leg feels loads better though after a couple of weeks.

3 things to consider

1. The thing about physio is that you have to make the exercises a habit, and that's where many of us fall down. It only works if you do them regularly, ideally every day.
2. Classes are much easier to use for regular practise if you're not the self motivated type.
3. A good yoga class is much harder to find than a good pilates class, if only as there is usually a far greater degree of supervision in a pilates class.

Do you swim? It's great for keeping dodgy backs at bay.

Mike there's a seasoned physio over in heath Hayes, he works out of tonic day spar had all sorts of back and knee pains from contact sports when younger he sorted them straight out ,both me and my daughter couldn't stand up at all ,after 45 min of being pulled apart could walk normal again with just a little ciatic pain from the raw nerve

Oli.vert wrote:3 things to consider

1. The thing about physio is that you have to make the exercises a habit, and that's where many of us fall down. It only works if you do them regularly, ideally every day.
2. Classes are much easier to use for regular practise if you're not the self motivated type.
3. A good yoga class is much harder to find than a good pilates class, if only as there is usually a far greater degree of supervision in a pilates class.

Do you swim? It's great for keeping dodgy backs at bay.

With respect (honest), that's not my experience of physio. Some of their stuff is treatment - like manipulation and aggravation therapy. Some of it is realignment (through strengthening exercises) but once it is realigned through deliberate exercises this returns the body to the way "it should be" i.e. once you're re-aligned you're sorted. Fair play though, I can imagine sometimes there is stuff you just have to keep doing, just not my experience. It'll depend what's up with him

You make a good point about yoga / pilates (not done the latter). Yoga teachers can have a huge range of knowledge, skill and experience and "yoga" itself is just a catch-all term for a bunch of different types with their own styles, focus and techniques. The lass that comes into our work is vaguely exciting, intimidatingly fit / flexible and mad-as-a-box-of-frogs. I can't follow some of the descriptions (she can be a bit "blonde" with her lefts and rights ) so have to watch her. It's occasionally weird to be staring at someone with their knees round their ears despite it being entirely legitimate (your honour ).

Definitey find either a good yoga or pilates class, then make it a habit to keep going pal!

I've a couple of bulging discs in my lower back that almost stopped me riding a few years ago. Yoga once a week for an hour is usually enough to keep it in check. It's all very subtle though, so you need to keep going regularily to feel any benefit.

With age i find that flexibility gets more important to maintain. Infact, if i had to pick one physical activity to continue for the rest of my miserable life, it would be yoga..

Know it's not local to you, but there's a bikefit guy at the Manchester Velodrome that has an 'endurance mountain biking' background, rather than just road. Was going to give him a go myself tbh, but don't know anyone else who's used him for an endurance mtb perspective..

https://pedalprecision.com/about_us/

Cheeky Monkey wrote:

Oli.vert wrote:3 things to consider

1. The thing about physio is that you have to make the exercises a habit, and that's where many of us fall down. It only works if you do them regularly, ideally every day.
2. Classes are much easier to use for regular practise if you're not the self motivated type.
3. A good yoga class is much harder to find than a good pilates class, if only as there is usually a far greater degree of supervision in a pilates class.

Do you swim? It's great for keeping dodgy backs at bay.

With respect (honest), that's not my experience of physio. Some of their stuff is treatment - like manipulation and aggravation therapy. Some of it is realignment (through strengthening exercises) but once it is realigned through deliberate exercises this returns the body to the way "it should be" i.e. once you're re-aligned you're sorted. Fair play though, I can imagine sometimes there is stuff you just have to keep doing, just not my experience. It'll depend what's up with him

No, you're absolutely right. I'm just making the point that when the reason someone is a bit out of whack and needs readjusting is due to a habit of some sort, usually that habit is not using the right muscles the right way with the result that some part is badly supported and starts to give gyp. Without working on the habit or weakness, (or the shape of your bike, or whatever) the problem often reoccurs. It's mainly as we get older (late 40s through 50s that our bodies set themselves into the shapes caused by our habits, and it's then that we often find little niggles showing themselves. You young folks have it all coming.

Cheeky Monkey wrote: You make a good point about yoga / pilates (not done the latter). Yoga teachers can have a huge range of knowledge, skill and experience and "yoga" itself is just a catch-all term for a bunch of different types with their own styles, focus and techniques. The lass that comes into our work is vaguely exciting, intimidatingly fit / flexible and mad-as-a-box-of-frogs. I can't follow some of the descriptions (she can be a bit "blonde" with her lefts and rights ) so have to watch her. It's occasionally weird to be staring at someone with their knees round their ears despite it being entirely legitimate (your honour ).

Yoga can be very good for a chaps entertainment level, this is true. Far more so than pilates. Allegedly.

For bike fit try Adrian at Cadence Sport:

http://www.cadencesport.co.uk/

He's very good, really knows his stuff. I've used him twice now and it's been worth every penny.

For lower back pain I found that yoga works quite well. I saw this video on Pinkbike a while back and found that it worked for me:

https://www.pinkbike.com/video/464232/

Cheers for all the above... I'm getting my legs massaged this evening so I will also ask about my back. I don't think I'll ever be as supple as that girl in the above video makes it look to easy

Some good advice there.
Would definitely see a physio, but has to be a good one - difficult to tell, I know, but I had seen one or two, then I saw this guy whose reception desk had a poster:
Myth:
Pain = damage

I had gone to him with my old climbing injury: left shoulder rotary cuff injury, which gave a lot of bother on long rides (in fact that was one of my 4 injuries which brought me to a halt at Kinlochewe on the HT in 2016)

So he gave me some exercises which I am still doing every day, since end of November, about 3 times a day. I take the shoulder into positions which are painful.

I’ve also had lower back problems, and when it occurs it’s hell for 3, 4, sometimes 5 days....

The remedy for this one is, every morning, to do a good stretch, with arms straight up in the air, then lean backwards as far as you can, legs about 3 feet apart, and hold it for 1 minute...

That’s also one of Yogananda’s yoga exercises, which he reckons if you hold it for 3 minutes (every day) prolongs your life...
It didn’t prolong his that much though- he died at age 59
But that exercise (I reckon ) is good for the back, and the circulation.
In my case a disc had peeped out a bit, and this stretch persuades it back in again.

You have to do this stuff EVERY DAY though.

When you’re ageing regular (and crafty!) exercise, just about slows down the decline... you may not improve much, but your not decaying quite as fast

Ps “Myth: pain = damage... with your back don’t force anything, have to listen to your body

I had a hip/lower back injury a few years ago that still gives me a bit of pain every now and then. A physio helped to resolve it at the time. She gave me exercises to do and I've added a few Pilates exercises and stretches since. I spend a few mins every night doing these and this definitely helps to reduce pain greatly. I notice that if I get lazy about doing them the pain can return. I find if I ride with a tight lower back it can lead to soreness around my knee, it's all linked.

Yoga. But in the mountains like (yes, that is my instructor).

Today is the second anniversary of twanging my lower back, had chronic pain on and off since.
+1 for a good physio - they can check if you've displaced your sacroiliac and put it back in if you have (common cycling related back injury as cyclists often have tight hamstrings which cause it to displace). that said the chances are you've just tweaked a disc or something which will sort itself out in time.
Pilates is good and will build up your core strength substantially as well as improving flexibility. Yoga too but more about stretching rater than core work (although it will improve core strength). Good core strength takes the pressure off your lower back, helps to prevent further injury and is a good thing to have for mountainbiking. I find pushing and carrying the bike much easier since building up core strength.

Its like sticking pins in your eyeballs but really pester the NHS if it persists and get them to do a scan. Took me over a year to convince them to do this but got one eventually. Its good for piece of mind and ensures you haven't got anything sinister going on (very unlikely...) Also sooner or later the NHS is going to appreciate that back pain isn't something they can ignore and fob people off with which is their current policy unless you are in crippling pain. The more people who refuse to be fobbed off the more chance this will happen. When I made the point I was trying to avoid being in crippling pain, the doctor didn't seem to understand this concept....

Keep riding your bike, its a good exercise for lower back issues. Re bike fit, as a start point just get your bars higher than your seat and closer towards you. The more upright your pelvis / spine angle is the less stress on your lower back = less pain.

Forgot to say Mike ,Fred Williams in wolves is pretty good for a bike fit

Mike, Tim Edbrooke is the business. He was the physio for GB triathlon team for a while, used to work in my old 'company' and now has his own practice working in Exeter and London a couple of days each every week.
He doesn't fanny around either. Still does a lot of cycling himself.

I'm a fan of bike fits, but it sounds like the body needs fixing to me Mike. I'm guessing the bike hasn't changed significantly for a while?

I've had more than my fair share of lower back issues, starting when I was cycling 14 miles up and down hills each day, without realising the importance of stretching. I built up my quads and hamstrings, but did no other exercise.

One morning I just couldn't get out of bed, the pain at a lower vertebrae was excruciating. After a week in bed I was gingerly walking around, but couldn't tilt my head forward.

All caused by cycling hard, but not doing anything to strengthen the muscles that could counteract the ones I'd strengthened. Tight muscles had pulled me out of alignment, and a disc had been pushed into nerves in my spine.

I went to an osteopath, and he did an amazing job of loosening me up. Experienced physios are also great at this stuff.

I was off the bike for 6 months, and in a lot of pain for a long time. All caused by a lot of riding and my own ignorance. These days I use a foam roller several times a week to keep my leg muscles feeling flexible. If I forget and neglect the roller I need a visit from a professional sports masseur (professional as in she does a pro rugby team). She says what does me in is that I don't exercise hard daily (I commute, but it's not Wales), but when I do (eg a bikepacking ride) I put my body through a lot from a relatively standing start. We all do that.

The psoas stretch mx suggested is a top one. And standing on a tennis ball is pretty amazing for loosening tight legs and back.

https://youtu.be/kNmJi_Cqeoo

I know she's on about hamstrings rather than the back, but they're all connected. My lower back feels a lot looser after a tennis ball session. I now keep a tennis ball in half the rooms in my house.

And when I first watched this video I thought WTF? But her approach works for me every time....

https://youtu.be/YlqyWEOhCg0

So this evening iv been to my friends and had a leg and lower back massage. And I feel so different for it, my legs he said were/are so tight after working on my hammys they feel so much better but Christ did it hurt whilst he was sorting em out. I think It will pay me to have a few sessions and also still do some yoga. I definitely happier for it :)

For a bike fit I used Mike Veal in Leamington. Sorted me out on my road bike and mtb, cost me a fortune in new shorter cranks but haven't had any knee problems since.

Backs are complex, and often not caused by bad backs (if you get what I mean). Yoga, Pilates can help if it's muscular or posture that's causing the pain, but you need proper advice from a physio, preferably a cycling one. You were having a bad shoulder, could be related......

Good luck though, just get some proper advice.