Highland Trail 550 - 2018

[Wotsits]

And in that case Jase he is a racer, but he said he wasn't?

I know what your saying Dave & i agree that all the people that line up for the group start should be willing to give it their best shot.

It's just i think that some of the faster times are so far away from what the majority of us could acheive, it's changes peoples perspective on the event. To just even finish the event within 7 days will be a massive effort for some, without taking into consideration weather conditions at the time, etc..

I would also think that Alans selection process for entry would mean that people had reached a suitible level/commitment for a start place..

[Dave Barter]

I've only ever once finished in the top ten of a fell race. Does that mean that in all the several hundred other races I entered I was actually just out for a bit of a jog?

No, read my posts again...carefully.

If you tried to get as high up the leaderboard as you could you raced. It is as simple as that. The point is that if you didn't, you completed the event, you did not race.

Racing is tying to get the highest position possible in recognition that not everyone can win or get in the top ten.

There's a subtle but important difference.

[benp1]

I think, that Dave is saying if you're racing against the clock, your own version of that clock, not against others, you should line up. If you're out for a ride, but aren't trying to get around as fast you can, which could well be slower than others, then you should just ITT it.

I sort of agree with this, the mass start should be for people trying hard

For anyone that just wants to get round, and might not be pushing themselves to get around as fast as they can, but completion in itself might be a push, then an ITT is still better

I don't know if that is the approach that everyone takes. Only superhumans are going to get round in 5 days

I'm not sure the marathon is a good analogy - it's too big and commercial and too much of an event that people just want to have done

[Dave Barter]

I think, that Dave is saying if you're racing against the clock, your own version of that clock, not against others, you should line up. If you're out for a ride, but aren't trying to get around as fast you can, which could well be slower than others, then you should just ITT it.

Not quite. I think you toe the line to beat as many of the others as possible. You ITT to set your own best time. You tour for sh1ts and giggles.

[benp1]

Well I suppose to ride as fast as you can against yourself, unless you're particularly slow, will have the knock on effect of potentially being faster than others

[whitestone]

I should have put some sort of smiley on that last post.

I've "raced" every fell race I've entered despite knowing that I'd invariably finish 50% slower than the winner and around 1/3rd of the way down the field. I did an analysis of a year's racing which showed that was the case.

Rich says he isn't a racer. He's said he thinks he could finish in 7 days so he wants to do well so he's a racer. Except he isn't!

Maybe Trackleaders has it right on the TDR: if you don't average (I think) 80 miles per day then your dot is relegated to touring.

Edit following the intervening posts: the distinction appears to be between "as fast as you can" vs "completion" (within the time limit). Of course these might be the same level of effort and resulting time for some. So:

Completing within the time limit AND going as fast as you can => racing (if you want to call it that)/group start
Completing within the time limit => ITT
Completing within the time limit but unable to make the group start => ITT

[Richpips]

If you've met the entry criteria Rich and Jason get your name down.

You'll have to be a very talented rider to be in contention for a podium place, so forget that.

A lot of people I know who've finished the route were happy to have made it round.

[Mart]

I’m contemplating a poodle round as a ITT (Touring mode) to include beer and giggles. I don’t race but I can plod

[Wotsits]

If you've met the entry criteria Rich and Jason get your name down.

You'll have to be a very talented rider to be in contention for a podium place, so forget that.

A lot of people I know who've finished the route were happy to have made it round.

I won't be putting my name into any HTR shaped hat this year Rich, i'm really looking forward to riding the rest of the route at some point though..

[Chew]

It changes peoples perspective on the event

And it should
Its the UK's Premier Bikepacking Race and people should see it as that. Its not like all of the other 'events' where anyone can turn up and enjoy it in the way they want to.
There is a 'Vision' behind the race and thats slowly being achieved
It should be elitist.

The selection process for entry would mean that people had reached a suitable level/commitment for a start place..

I think people may not understand the process. Its an invitational event.

Completing a qualifying event, just means that your application will be considered. Its not a guaranteed start.
You still have to be invited to attend the group start, which is based upon many other things.


This isnt directed at anyone in particular, and i'd encourage people to apply. Its more setting expectations if peoples applications are turned down.

[Wotsits]

Its the UK's Premier Bikepacking Race and people should see it as that. Its not like all of the other 'events' where anyone can turn up and enjoy it in the way they want to.
There is a 'Vision' behind the race and thats slowly being achieved
It should be elitist.

I really hope it doesn't go too far in that direction & that there'll always be a few places for decent riders just trying to better themselves & expereince the group start Chew.

One of the things i love about bikepacking is the lack of elitism. The fact that you can sign up to something with some of the best riders around & just be happy that you've done your own best, without worring about how far away from the leaders times you are..

I've always thought of these long distance events as being a battle as much with yourself as those around you..

[Richpips]

Barry's video.

https://vimeo.com/235253936

[ScotRoutes]

If you're competing then you're racing, otherwise you're participating. See; any number of sportives, marathons, 10Ks.

It's perfectly possible to participate in the same event in which others are competing.

Participation is often its own reward and you can't simply say that taking part in an event without competing is the same as doing the course solo.

Has the HTR550 become elitist? Of course it has. As it's gained international recognition then the level of competition has risen. To come back to the marathon analogy, you might win a place in a ballot for the London Marathon but you only get to the Olympics through merit.

As mentioned in a rather light-hearted manner previously, maybe there is a place for a non-competitive group start using the same route and at a different time of year.

[jam bo]

As mentioned in a rather light-hearted manner previously, maybe there is a place for a non-competitive group start using the same route and at a different time of year.

the Highland trail sportive? will there be feed stations and route markers?

[ScotRoutes]

Sag wagon past Lochinver would be interesting

[ianfitz]

I have no problem with the HTR groups start being elitist to a point.

It should be for people who are fully intending to get round the route as fast as THEY possibly can.

As has been said there are plenty of group start rides these days and the majority are 'open access' which is great. But surely there is room in the UK calendar for an all-out-leave-nothing-in-the-tank event. I would suggest that the route and the event is of sufficient caliber for this to be the case

I won't be applying for a place next year because I want (or maybe need!) to focus on other riding. I found the HTR to be so demanding in preparation, participation and recovery that there was little room for anything else. Given that I finished in 4:05:48 in 2016 and was then 12 hours ahead of that pace when I scratched at FW I could probably have a (relatively) easy ride round in 5 days something. But, for me, that's not what the group start is for.

[ScotRoutes]

Is this the correct time to point out that both the Borders 350 and Markus's new Scottish trail have a lower ratio of successful completions than the HTR550? In fact, I think even the Cairngorms Loops might be lower these days

[ianfitz]

Is this the correct time to point out that both the Borders 350 and Markus's new Scottish trail have a lower ratio of successful completions than the HTR550? In fact, I think even the Cairngorms Loops might be lower these days

The borders 350 has 0 completions from group starts and only one completion at all!

[ScotRoutes]

I rest my case.....

[whitestone]

Barry's video.

https://vimeo.com/235253936

Liked that!

Did a quick check: The Cambrian Trail, Borders 350 and Big Bear have currently just 8 completions between the three of them.

[ianfitz]

Barry's video.

https://vimeo.com/235253936

Liked that!

Did a quick check: The Cambrian Trail, Borders 350 and Big Bear have currently just 8 completions between the three of them.

It would be interesting to rotate between some of these as the ‘qualifying events’ for the htr group starts. Pick two, one of which must be ridden the year before.

[whitestone]

In one of several deleted responses to this thread I was going to make the point that those three were effectively the second tier of ITTs (I'm studiously ignoring Aiden Harding's EWE) in the UK.

[fatbikephil]

Barry's video.

https://vimeo.com/235253936

Liked that!

Did a quick check: The Cambrian Trail, Borders 350 and Big Bear have currently just 8 completions between the three of them.

+1 Fair play to him for doing all of the filming himself - must have added a fair few miles on! I take it that was back in April or early May given the weather?
If youre going to tour the route, missing out the top loop is a good call...

[postierich]

I am not a racer no gels lycraroadie cap but will probably drink beer and finish mid pack carrying everything to keep me safe and comfortable and having a laugh along the way if I am not welcome at the start I will ride the route backwards

Never knew it was so serious its just riding a bike innit
Cheers

Edit just thought about it "I,m out" hate to upset the elitists

[ScotRoutes]

I will ride the route backwards

It has to be done. Indeed, I've considered it myself. I'm not sure if that would make it tougher or easier but I suspect it would balance out by the time you got to 550 miles.