sobering read if you're in the market for such a thing:
https://www.polebicycles.com/why-arent- ... on-frames/

A marketing coupe.

They said they were 90% ready to start production their carbon frames and just needed to find a factory to produce them, yet further down the article they say:

We’ve learned that carbon bikes can be very unreliable compared to aluminum bikes.

So did they learn that at the start and decide to just make unreliable carbon frames anyway?
Or have they only just learnt that now despite their "two researches and one master’s degree in engineering" and halted the process?

They're either happy to sell unreliable bikes or they are terrible at researching the product they are making, neither of which are particularly good for a bike company.

I'd read something similar but not as in depth elsewhere. It added to my already substantial loathing of carbon fibre for a frame or other component material which was previously based on its lack of crash proofness, tendency to creap and tendency to go 'soggy' after a few years use. And its not really re-cyclable to boot. I'll stick with metal thanks....

Can you recycle bike frames? Aluminium frames?

Upcycling I can see

voodoo_simon wrote:Can you recycle bike frames? Aluminium frames?

Upcycling I can see

Yeah, as far as I know you can just sling it in with any other scrap alu. Same with steel and ti.

I can see the environmental side of that argument but would guess that the 'cheap, far eastern' factories specialising in Alu and steel aren't exactly great places to work either.

I think it's really easy to persuade people that far east (bike industry) factory work is some kind of slavery in a sweat shop if that suits your position. The factories any decent brand would want to work with aren't like that - I've been to a number of them and as a student I worked in factories that were no better or worse, for wages that were bottom rate. If China's labour rules aren't within our ethical guidelines there's a whole lot of products we shouldn't be using either but the larger, reputable factories have good working conditions - and a carbon factory is a much cooler, airier place to be in most departments than an Al frame welding shop.

Reads like they don't like the process, fair enough. Maybe mold costs came up as a barrier to a small brand. Or, just say you don't see carbon as the right material for what you want to do, also fair enough. For a susser I'd take alu every time and see it as a short-term ownership thing, 2-3 years and move on. They get beat up when hung on chairlifts, packed into vans/crammed into cars, or clattered into rocks so ----- spending top £ on carbon

Very wise words from Touch.

I don't see that you can draw a short line at bicycle frames if talking about ethics and China. Anyone who does, really needs to study everything else they buy from a T shirt to a cordless screwdriver, then see what the view's like from the high ground.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I don't see that you can draw a short line at bicycle frames if talking about ethics and China. Anyone who does, really needs to study everything else they buy from a T shirt to a cordless screwdriver, then see what the view's like from the high ground.

That's completely true, the environmental impact of most consumer items we buy is hard to justify and i'm in no place to criticise anyone's choices (chinese made bike etc ect) just thought it was an interesting read.
For me the most disappointing part of the whole article are the stated disposal recommendations from the chinese government. But that's why china and the like are the cheap manufacturing bases of the world.

That's completely true, the environmental impact of most consumer items we buy is hard to justify and i'm in no place to criticise anyone's choices (chinese made bike etc ect) just thought it was an interesting read.

My comment wasn't angled towards you ... simply my thoughts on the subject, thank you for posting it in the first place.

the main problem with carbon is the lack of recyclability ... doesn't matter if its a pricey set of leaf spring forks , or a cheep Chinese seat post its all got the same problem.... its a compound material so hideous for the environment

Single Speed George wrote:the main problem with carbon is the lack of recyclability ... doesn't matter if its a pricey set of leaf spring forks , or a cheep Chinese seat post its all got the same problem.... its a compound material so hideous for the environment

I certainly agree with the first part. I do however have an infinitely recyclable alloy santa cruz chameleon frame in my garage that's just gathering dust. Carbon isn't any worse than that is it? But I do accept that if I can ever bring myself to bin it then the local tip will start its process into coke cans more easily than binning a carbon frame.

Wasn't their issue that who they approached just tipped all the waste in the sea. That's not the fault of carbon, just that supplier. I doubt they'd suddenly be better if they started welding.

I can see Pole's point but I wouldn't tar every producer with the same brush.

but I wouldn't tar every producer with the same brush.

maybe not the same brush but certainly a brush with a fair amount of tar or should i say resin on said brush ..... but as far as environmental impact goes all carbon is bad nomatter where it is from , i have attended enough materials lectures et to know that... its more energy intensive to produce especily if individual componets are takien in to acount, it allso uses lots of other reacorces like water , and is near imposible to recycle.... nomatter where it is from.

i do have carbon forks , but i just think people should be aware when buying things in general

obviosly in aplications like aero space it is offset by the eficency gains of the jet fuel from the weight reduction so not all carbon is bad but not on bikes :)

Bearbonesnorm wrote:My comment wasn't angled towards you ... simply my thoughts on the subject, thank you for posting it in the first place.

No problem, Stupid internet and it's lack of nuance.

They say ‘Americans don’t do irony’ so had a quiet chuckle to myself reading the article. My biggest question was ‘what part of capitalism don’t they understand’ unless they have an inkling of a Trump import tariff heading their way? I assume that they won’t be having the Ali frames made in Taiwan the bike frame capital of the world.
Aluminium isn’t exactly the ‘greenest’ material you could choose. It has to be mined, extracted from the ore, then processed. Part of the process uses carbon electrodes and some the by-products are environmentally hazardous. The whole process consumes so much energy that they often require their own power station although this can be sustainable hydro. Aluminium smelters are excluded from countries over all carbon footprint for climate agreements.
On the plus side once produced Aluminium can be recycled.

Mariner wrote:They say ‘Americans don’t do irony’

They're Finnish.

I remember reading that, as a society, we are essentially self-sufficient in aluminium IF we recycled all that we currently have.

whitestone wrote:I remember reading that, as a society, we are essentially self-sufficient in aluminium IF we recycled all that we currently have.

Flip side of that is producing Aluminium from ore is a hugely costly and requires massive energy consumption. So the obvious question is are we doing enough to recycle whats already in the system or do we need more than ever?

To see what a truly closed-loop system of bicycle manufacturing might look like, check out the imagine Project at Islabikes. http://www.islabikes.co.uk/imagineproject

Isla Rowntree is a bit of a visionary. It feels very futuristic but it'll be really interesting to see how this develops.