How do the shimano ones fare at low speeds?
~
Apart from the bearings failing on mine, I wasn't that impressed with it not charging under ~6mph

GregMay wrote:Still have one of the first Exposure 15mm hubs going fine. Just a little over 15,000km done offroad on it. It's not been treated well. But still works fine.

When you say not treated well, has it been washed regularly?

When I had cheap wheels I used to just ride the bike and then put it away. When I got my first wheels with Hope hubs as they were expensive I took more care of them. After each ride I would wash the bike and this included using Muc Off/Fenwicks. The bearings in the hubs (and the BB for that matter) didn't seem to last as well as my old bike. I'm sure that some of the cleaner finds its way inside, which then gets into the bearings and thins the grease as it's a degreaser. I now only ever clean around hubs/BBs/headsets with water and avoid blasting them with the hose and the bearings last.

Having said all the above, my first SP had to go back for play in the bearings and I don't recall getting cleaner on it, but maybe I did as it was expensive and I wanted to look after it.

How do the shimano ones fare at low speeds?

I couldn't say that they were better Rich but I also wouldn't say they were any worse. It's something I don't pay too much attention to as I don't run a gps from the dynamo and just accept that my lights will be dimmer if climbing.

sean_iow wrote:

GregMay wrote:Still have one of the first Exposure 15mm hubs going fine. Just a little over 15,000km done offroad on it. It's not been treated well. But still works fine.

When you say not treated well, has it been washed regularly?

What is this wash you speak of?

Odd hose across it, never has it seen the anger of a pressure washer.

Aye - wot Greg says. My day job involves washing bikes. I see no reason to continue the practice at home. My only exception is when visiting a new area as I'm scrupulous about not transmitting any any disease/vector.

One sure fire way to kill anything that rotates/slides is by applying any pressure driven water over it.

As with Colin, I will wash bikes thoroughly if they have had a lot of scatt or farm waste on them.

I never use pressure washer on mine, only a hose. I think the commercial cleaning solutions are better at penetrating past seals than plain water so I now keep these well away from the moving parts. My usual routine is to rinse the tires off if they're muddy and also the frame if the mud is still wet. Sheep poo in particular needs to be cleaned off before it fully dries or it's a real pain and nearly impossible to wash off. If SP made the bearings out of dried sheep poo they would never wear out

I would like to say in the interests of fairness that my hub seized solid at 600 miles ... it had never seen a hose or any type of cleaner as I either took the wheel out when washing the bike or covered the hub with a plastic bag. I also actively avoided riding through any water hub deep.

I actually think infrequent use speeded up its demise.

Dave Barter wrote:My 650B wheel .. bearings failed 2 months outside of warranty
My 700c wheel .. bearings failed 4 months outside of warranty
My 29'er wheel .. bearings not failed currently in warranty only a few months left and winter is coming

That's impeccable design Would be a terrible business plan if they failed within warranty period...

I suspect the issue is water getting past the seals as even lip sealed cartridge bearings will let water in. Ideally you'd have a couple of outboard lip seals as well, as per hope fatsnos. If there is plenty of non waterproof grease in there then if only small amounts of water gets in it mixes with the grease and won't do too much harm. If there is not enough grease then corrosion will quickly start and kill the bearing sharpish. I've also found that if bearings are packed with waterproof grease the water doesn't mix with it so if water gets in and the bike is left to stand after use for a while it will rust the bearings quickly. I killed a rotor BB on the Ice cream truck after one ride thanks to this....

And stainless bearings are a waste of space as they wear out in no time!

Bearbonesnorm wrote:It's a shame that there doesn't appear to be any common denominator at play. If there was some underlying reason for failure such as water ingress or upon reaching a certain mileage, then you could take steps to avoid it but failure appears to be completely random ... so random, that I can only think it's a QC problem and whether you get a Tuesday lunchtime or Friday afternoon hub, is simply luck of the draw.

I would say that they were fine until about 3/4 years ago. then the pot luck SP hubs started being produced. That might also be about the time when SP took over the manufacturing from the original company that built them for them, I have been told by somebody who now brands their own hubs from that manufacturer. It might also fit with your thoughts on QC.

Update: SP will not replace my bearings for free out of warranty but offer a bearing replacement service now:-

http://www.sp-dynamo.com/Store.html

It costs approx £25 with you paying the shipping which will be about the same I guess. So £50.

Seeing as the Alpkit LoveMud Juice is £56 at the moment brand new I can't see this being worth it.

I've run a Juice on my gravel bike for about a year, clearly it's a bit drier here than sunny Wiltshire but it survived the 350km Pirinexus when a thunderstorm meant it ran underwater for about 20 minutes. So far it's been fine and powers my Revo and Gps via a kemo switch/inverter with no issues.

Here's what SP told me when I gave them the news I was looking at a Juice

It is a good price. Actually it is a pirate version. It is made by another Taiwanese company. They copied our hub.
We actually sued them in the court in Taiwan. Their price is very good. Maybe you can have a try. But I feel it can be risky.

Their experience is not long. Only 1 year. The quality may not be stable. I just heard they got quality issue from Canyon in Germany. At this moment, Canyon order from SP and that company. Just only small q’t from them. But they got something wrong even the hubs are not used yet.

Reckon, I'll just stick me my forty quid Shimano DH-3D32 hubs ... not as light, not as pretty but that seems like a small price to pay if reliability proves good (so far it does).

I've had two SO hubs. One an SP and one a rebranded Exposure one.

Both failed with the bearings and with side to side movement. Both within the warranty and one only lasted a few months with only a couple hundred miles use.

One was making so much noise and next day I could not move the wheel at all.

Then I bought a SON 28 dynamo. I know they are expensive but the money saved not having to get wheels rebuilt is worth it.

A couple of vids I took of one of my SP hubs that showed the side play I was getting

https://flickr.com/photos/130449394@N08 ... 1729182975

The "other Taiwanese company" comment is likely to be correct, the dynamo hub along with the initial batch of Love Mud components were introduced when Brant Richards was their design consultant before his head was turned by the world of trousers. Their current bike guru is Niel Sutton who is straight as a die, I worked with him for 2 years in the workshop at PX, why don't you ring him and ask if their returns have been excessive? I'd say the SP response smells of sour grapes.

Their current bike guru is Niel Sutton who is straight as a die, I worked with him for 2 years in the workshop at PX, why don't you ring him and ask if their returns have been excessive? I'd say the SP response smells of sour grapes.

When I last spoke to Neil, he said they'd only had one back.

Richpips wrote:

Their current bike guru is Niel Sutton who is straight as a die, I worked with him for 2 years in the workshop at PX, why don't you ring him and ask if their returns have been excessive? I'd say the SP response smells of sour grapes.

When I last spoke to Neil, he said they'd only had one back.

Its the love mud's I was talking about. Neil told me there had been a couple in about a hundred plus that had problems. Mine arrived and it seems very well finished indeed

Just so that Schmidt hubs don't become seen as some mythical never failing item. From memory when I used to work in a shop that sold (a lot) of them "a couple in a hundred plus" would be about the warranty* return rate for Schmidt hubs too.

*Remember that is with a five year warranty though.

Is there any thing in your stats that indicates whether failures increase with sprung as opposed to rigid forks?
Buried in the SON website somewhere is a statement that the dynamo is not designed for use off road or downhill may be the term they use.
I convinced myself that using RS forks would put less stress into the bearings.

Is there any thing in your stats that indicates whether failures increase with sprung as opposed to rigid forks?
Buried in the SON website somewhere is a statement that the dynamo is not designed for use off road or downhill may be the term they use.
I convinced myself that using RS forks would put less stress into the bearings.

Given there's a squishy (technical term) tyre on there, I think any difference between sprung and unsprung would be marginal at best. However, I can see how a larger diameter wheel / heavier wheel / both might have an effect, especially when you consider the forces applied to the axle / bearings while cornering.

It'd be interesting to see figures for what % of failures occured to 29er compared to 26" wheels and those fitted with plus or fat tyres.

I'd like to offer my warmest congratulations to SP for hitting the hat trick.

Tonight my 3rd working SP hub decided that generating electricity was too much faff and has subsequently gone on strike. Luckily this one is in warranty but it is going to be a massive hassle.

Bollocks to SP, where can I get a SON or other wheel quickly before BB200?

Can lend you my SP wheel if you're desperate Dave.

Would have to check it's still working first obvs...

Very kind Andy but I need a dynamo for winter.