I have two waterproof jackets but both are a few years old and wet out within a few minutes no matter how much care I take reproofing them (as has been the case with every waterproof I've owned), so I'm looking at the options.

At one end of the spectrum is Paramo and at the other seems to be the Gore Active Shake-dry thingummy. Buying both would seem to cover all bases but wouldn't be cheap. I don't like overheating, making the Paramo a winter-only option. So how good is the Gore? From the reviews it sounds amazing but delicate and close-fitting, so not something for wearing a pack or too many layers with, I guess?

Any experience or bright ideas?

In the tradition of another forum I'd recommend what I have Alpkit Gravitas. I've only used it a couple of times but it's ticks all the boxes for me. Light, waterproof and I didn't seem to overheat but that obviously depends on hard hard you're riding and the temperature. The fit is good and not too flappy. The elastic cuffs on the sleeves might not be to everyone's liking but the next model up in the range has adjuster's and more features if required but is nearly twice the weight although still a lightweight jacket.

Thanks. I had thought about the Alpkit jackets but I think I'm done with buying 'normal' waterproofs that rely on a DWR coating. They all seem to work great for the first few uses and then never again in my experience.

Not tried one yet myself but the dedicated Paramo ciclo light is supposed to be really good,
I'm a Paramo fan anyway, not found anything with the same combination of waterproofness,
Breath ability and toughness.

They all seem to work great for the first few uses and then never again in my experience.

Uhm, I once did a first aid course with a lad who was a buyer for a big outdoor chain. We got onto the subject of waterproof jackets and I asked his advise, which was ... save your money, buy a cheap one and once it's knackered throw it away.

^^^
Trouble with cheap ones is that they don't breathe well, if at all (from my experience). Fine if you only put it in in a deluge but if you were it as a wind jacket or in 'its spitting', then I'd prefer something from Gore Active or Polartec etc

A good article here, explaining the tech behind the fabrics. Well worth a read, and it also concludes that many of the 'own brand' fabrics use very similar technology to the well known brands, but at a much reduced price. It also stresses the importance of keeping your jacket clean, and re-proofing the DWR layer if it is to maintain its ability to allow vapour to transmit through the fabric.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4556

I think the biggest change in the 5 years since it was written is the introduction of Permenant Beading Surface fabrics, first by Columbia, then closely followed by Gore. These have the potential to be considerably more breathable, but the compromise is durability, as Dave B recently found out...

It's hard to argue against your thoughts, the 2 jackets I'd buy for bikepacking use is the shake dry gore jacket and a paramo

I see bikepacking as different as it's much harder on wet weather kit than a quick half day or day long MTB jaunt

My paramo was worn for a 3 day weekend of wet lake district bikepacking, I was bone dry. Very impressed. No other jacket I have would have been able to match that, I have many many jackets

The shake dry looks great, 2 things put me off
- its very light but it's therefore not so robust (see Dave Barters feedback of the jacket vs brambles)
- I would still like slightly longer sleeves, they're OK, not brilliant (I've tried a couple on)

It's rare that I'm in warm rain, its usually cold and windy to go with it. So a paramo might not be the worst thing in the world. The problem with paramo is the weight and packability of it when it's not raining and you don't want to wear it

Gore Paclite Element (the one with a hood and relaxed fit) is £90 at Chain Reaction.

Been looking at this myself and the two ends of the spectrum are
http://www.dirtlej.com/dirtsuit-black-edition
https://www.safetysupplies.co.uk/trolle ... overshoes/
sublime to the ridiculous but cant work out which is which.

I expect someone has already tried the tyvek option and could offer a review?

I used to be firmly in the Goretex (or similar) camp when I was mostly climbing, but then you aren't producing huge amounts of sweat in the way that you are when biking. Latterly for winter use I ended up with Paramo, it was about the same cost as a quality Goretex setup. I've the Velez jacket and some salopettes that I don't think they do any more.

The main problem for me with Paramo is that it's so warm, it needs to be below zero before I'm comfortable doing any exertion in it. I've used it when marshalling at fell races and not got wet so it's definitely waterproof. Something like the Velez but with about a third of the insulation would be fine for biking.

Currently for biking/bikepacking I've a Haglofs windshirt which has some thin insulation on the body front which is fine for light showers. I also have an Endura MT500 jacket for heavier rain. I took and used both on the HT550 this year. IME the lighter jackets are fine until you get rain and wind, they then get moulded to your inner layers and seem to wet through - I scratched on last year's Braunton 150 because of this. Jackets made from heavier material keep their shape better so don't do this.

Those tyvek suits do actually work for a while if you seam seal them! Tried it in the spirit of experimentation. And of course there's the added benefit of picking up little cash-only decorating jobs along your bikepacking route as people misinterpret the function of your garb.

This is completely unhelpful at this juncture because of course they're no longer made, but I can't resist a wistful nostalgic moment and mention the RAB eVent smock - never been bettered and I only allow myself the treat of wearing mine now on VERY special occasions.

I still can't get on with Paramo. I bought a Velez and I've worn it on a few occasions but I can never get the temperature/waterproof elegant balanced. I still have a Buffalo shirt and even that gets more use

Hmmm ... think I'll get a Paramo and see how I get on with it. I can generally live with being wet when it's not cold, so maybe I'll just stick with my past-its-best Montane event for warmer days for now.

Those Tyvek suits raised a smile. Would certainly fit with the 'buy cheap and throw it away when it's knackered' philosophy.

Oh, a serious (sigh) view? OMM Aether eVent smock - 194g med, 30k HH, proper hood, pocket. With three different weightings of bamboo underlayer for 6 or 7 diff temp combos. Bomb (and sweat) proof.

If you're buying paramo, consider the lightest weight version they do. It's easier to layer up underneath if you're feeling the chill

Make sure you can try on first too, the sizing is quite boxy unless you get one of the newer ones

Venting options on paramo are generally quite good

I have that OMM jacket (admittedly bought secondhand) and a Paramo Velez.

It's less warm than my Paramo velez but I still sweat under it AND I find once I sweat I dry out more easily in the Paramo so don't feel clammy/sticky.

However the OMM packs down, the Paramo is an albatross when not worn.

Always interesting to read diff experiences with same item - I think my sweat glands have malfunctioned in old age. Or maybe the pores of your OMM are bunged up with the previous incumbent's detritus :).

Popped into cycle surgery earlier, they had the gore one jackets there so I tried it on again

The 1985 vs the bike one jackets fit quite differently - different collar and cuff design, sleeve length, torso length, pocket, cut

I preferred the bike one to the 1985 jacket for what it's worth

Millets are doing the bike one on ebay for £145-ish, which seems a good deal.

I recently purchased a Showerspass Refuge jacket and it is a really well thought out jacket, I am impressed so far.
More of a jacket for proper rain than a lightweight option.

I am a Paramo fan in the winter. A true wear all day waterproof that breathes like a windproof.

The problem is it sits in a box from march until october

Of the lighter weight waterproofs i was a great fan of the Rab event smock RIP uses although i found the hood too bulky. When it wore out i bought a OMM Aether Event smock which is similar but with a better ( smaller ) hood which i wear under the helmet. At 204g ( large ) i wouldn't say it was bombproof however and brambles are to be avoided.

I also echo Whitestones comments about light weight waterproofs in truly driving rain. I'd love a third weapon in the arsenal and wish for a event jacket with a hood but no other pockets made with a good strong abrasion resistant outer material. It would probably weigh about 300g but would be worth it for proper mountain duties. i don't know of such a jacket however as all the manufacturers want to put in loads of unnecessary pockets which is just extra weight and places for the jacket to leak

benp1 wrote:If you're buying paramo, consider the lightest weight version they do. It's easier to layer up underneath if you're feeling the chill

I know Paramo doesn't claim to be fully waterproof, but what will the 'top layer only' jackets withstand in the way of rain? And if you get really soaked, what do you need to have under them to stay comfortably warm if not totally dry? With a lightweight fleece underneath, is it effectively rather like a Buffalo?

DoctorRad wrote:

benp1 wrote:If you're buying paramo, consider the lightest weight version they do. It's easier to layer up underneath if you're feeling the chill

I know Paramo doesn't claim to be fully waterproof, but what will the 'top layer only' jackets withstand in the way of rain? And if you get really soaked, what do you need to have under them to stay comfortably warm if not totally dry? With a lightweight fleece underneath, is it effectively rather like a Buffalo?

I meant the lightest weight waterproof, the linings have different weights. The ciclo is about as lightweight as you're going to get. The new enduro ones are cut better, but bloody expensive

The top layer only ones are water resistant. They can be very water resistant in the right conditions, particularly if coupled with a good wicking base layer, and waterproof if coupled with one of their special fleeces. But in pissing rain you'll end up damp with a windproof layer