TDR 2017

[NewRetroTom]

Just did a comparison of the re-route against the old route on the Trackleaders replay.
For 2016 Josh Kato took 6.5 hours from Round Prairie to Lodgepole FSR/Flathead Valley Rd junction on the old route.
For 2017 he took 16 hours to get between those points via the new route. He seemed to stop for a 3.5 hour sleep in that so say 12.5 hours riding time.

The time difference comparing the new route to the old route looks like it could be about 6 hours extra riding/pushing.

I think that must be why the leaders are currently so far off the record pace, and why there are only 8 riders ahead of the 20 day pace at the moment.

[whitestone]

There are comments on the bikepacking.net forums to the effect that at one point Ben Steurbaut and Josh Kato were moving so slowly that they could well have been pushing through snow. No doubt we'll find out sooner or later.

The 20 (& 25 & 30) day pace markers, are those based on historical data or a simple division of distance by time?

[Justchris]

Seems J Petervary is doing an itt, interesting way of doing it.

[voodoo_simon]

There are comments on the bikepacking.net forums to the effect that at one point Ben Steurbaut and Josh Kato were moving so slowly that they could well have been pushing through snow. No doubt we'll find out sooner or later.

The 20 (& 25 & 30) day pace markers, are those based on historical data or a simple division of distance by time?

Saw one picture (instagram?) showing a steep, loose rocky ascent with a lot of water flowing down! Think the same report said they had to push downhill too

[GregMay]

Seems J Petervary is doing an itt, interesting way of doing it.

JP has previous in doing it as an ITT after the GD - gives him people to chase.

Will be interesting to see what he does. Especially after two years ago with the near photo finish with Josh and Neil.

[GregMay]

Just did a comparison of the re-route against the old route on the Trackleaders replay.
For 2016 Josh Kato took 6.5 hours from Round Prairie to Lodgepole FSR/Flathead Valley Rd junction on the old route.
For 2017 he took 16 hours to get between those points via the new route. He seemed to stop for a 3.5 hour sleep in that so say 12.5 hours riding time.

The time difference comparing the new route to the old route looks like it could be about 6 hours extra riding/pushing.

I think that must be why the leaders are currently so far off the record pace, and why there are only 8 riders ahead of the 20 day pace at the moment.

Reading around, suggests there is still quite a bit of snow up high at the moment.

Wonder if they will hit up the Rocky Mountain Roadhouse tomororw Tom? Remember, don't trust anyone. *drunkenly taps nose*

[Pirahna]

I was just chatting on Facebook to my mate in Fernie, he'd been out talking to riders. They all said the re-route was horrendous with mud, water and rocks and was miles of walking and pushing on a very steep gradient.

[atk]

Billy Rice also setting off for an ITT this year: https://instagram.com/p/BVOO-JDBX1A/

[sean_iow]

I was just chatting on Facebook to my mate in Fernie, he'd been out talking to riders. They all said the re-route was horrendous with mud, water and rocks and was miles of walking and pushing on a very steep gradient.

I saw on Trackleaders yesterday that some riders went down the normal route through Elkford and Sparwood, e.g. Craig Copelin got as far as Fernie before turning round and heading back to the start of the re-route. I wonder if he bumped into another racer and realised his error. I looks like it was 24hrs from starting down the wrong route to getting back to the same spot. To then have that mud,water and rocks to deal with must of been mentally tough. He's back at Fernie now though.

[NewRetroTom]

Wonder if they will hit up the Rocky Mountain Roadhouse tomororw Tom? Remember, don't trust anyone. *drunkenly taps nose*

Ha! Looks like Rickie and Lee didn't stop for sage advice at the Rocky Mountain Roadhouse, but did stop in at the blind squirrel shop.
They have ended up sleeping very close to where we did on the 3rd night.

[GregMay]

Wonder if they will hit up the Rocky Mountain Roadhouse tomororw Tom? Remember, don't trust anyone. *drunkenly taps nose*

Ha! Looks like Rickie and Lee didn't stop for sage advice at the Rocky Mountain Roadhouse, but did stop in at the blind squirrel shop.
They have ended up sleeping very close to where we did on the 3rd night.

I'd forgotten about the blind squirrel man!

Wonder if they got better sleep than I did that night? The dude who arrived super late and faffed with his kit for an hour annoyed me to no end.

First of the big climbs today, we will get to see if there is snow or not with their speed. Todays riding, is probably one of the really nice days in Montana, quite fast roads for most of it. Lunch at Holland Lake, over and down to Ovando and if they get it right, over Hucklberry into Lincon.

[GregMay]

Also of note, looking like the new alternate at the start is no longer an alternate - the bridge that caused issues in 2015 post floods of 2014, was repaired for 2016, has now been permanently removed. So, this may now be the defacto course.

[whitestone]

Looks like the lead pair are at Ovando - http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra- ... /msg89455/

[GregMay]

Looks like the lead pair are at Ovando - http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra- ... /msg89455/

Surprisingly nice toilet in the store.

[GregMay]

Looks like JP has bedded down at Butts Cabin - which, puts him ahead of where the others slept on the end of D1. I wonder if he got better weather? And, if the trail was a bit more compacted in sections!

Billy Rice off today, also looking like a good weather window for the first few days.

[jameso]

Looks like JP has bedded down at Butts Cabin

Banff to Butts is probably like the normal commute to the office for him these days.

The ITT thing is interesting. If the GDR, then the TDR format that followed, is a tribute to John Stamstad's original GDMTBR ITT then the ITT rather than the group start has something special about it. If it were climbing ethics the on-sight, ie rookie fast solo ITT started away from the grand depart, has to be the purest style? No others to motivate your race pace and in Stamstad's case, no-one watching via trackleaders either. So maybe no spot either, just your GPS or your word. No denying the effect of racing others on the motivation, ego or whatever it is / whatever else makes us push ourselves. Sort of occured to me before as well as was pushed out of mind as a 'sod that, hard enough as it is' thought!

[GregMay]

Agree with you James. Similar to rocking up and riding with people you know which is becoming more common.

FWIW, ITT for me next time.

[whitestone]

Agree with you James. Similar to rocking up and riding with people you know which is becoming more common.

FWIW, ITT for me next time.

Would you start ahead or behind the GD? I can see advantages/disadvantages to both but I think my preference would be start a few days ahead, the fast guys will eventually catch you but most of the ride you are going to be on your own whereas starting after you are essentially chasing the tail and using the slower riders as targets to help pull you along.

Edit: should say that the TDR doesn't particularly appeal to me so it's a rhetorical question.

[GregMay]

Agree with you James. Similar to rocking up and riding with people you know which is becoming more common.

FWIW, ITT for me next time.

Would you start ahead or behind the GD? I can see advantages/disadvantages to both but I think my preference would be start a few days ahead, the fast guys will eventually catch you but most of the ride you are going to be on your own whereas starting after you are essentially chasing the tail and using the slower riders as targets to help pull you along.

Edit: should say that the TDR doesn't particularly appeal to me so it's a rhetorical question.

Behind, but probably a week, if not two. For this, and the ability to judge snowpack, I envy the US/Canadian riders who can rock up when conditions are good. JPs fastest time was done in that manner.

[jameso]

Similar to rocking up and riding with people you know which is becoming more common.

That's perhaps a DQ if it's intentional, but I'd not want to get onto all that in detail or individual cases, just ethically it's a bit suspect imo. There was a fast female finisher a while back who was called out for her boyfriend/husband joining her for section/s. It's meant to be a solo effort and that's always been clear.
Having said that the TransContinental as a pair is a different kind of pressure and has its own place as a challenge. Just the TDR was always intended to be a solo, even ending up on the same pace as another rider for a few days had me questioning whether that was right (edit to add - in the mass start some things have to be accepted, you can't ride in a bubble of your own. The company is good for a period, no denying that). That's when the mass start vs the solo effort thing gets blurry (and not important beyond an interest in ethics and approach much beyond my interest in actual times set tbh, so those who've done both I find inspiring).

Good call Greg. NB and SS also? ; )

[Blackhound]

Noticed that Ben and Josh in 1st and 3rd are riding Lauf Forks. The future? Ben was at the De Zeeuw van Vlaanderen last October that I did with Rich and Tom Siepp. He was really quick that day.

Jerry Sharp (Derby) stepped back off a kerb yesterday in Eureka and twisted his ankle badly so stopped early for the day to ice and assess.

[GregMay]

Similar to rocking up and riding with people you know which is becoming more common.

That's perhaps a DQ if it's intentional, but I'd not want to get onto all that in detail or individual cases, just ethically it's a bit suspect imo.

Uh huh... agree.

Good call Greg. NB and SS also? ; )

I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid :)

SS maybe though.

[jameso]

^ Ha ..

I should add (after reading some of the above back while dot watching) that 'ethics' is probably the wrong term. Sounds a bit judgemental. Who cares how you ride an event, your call only and it's nothing to be undermined however you do it. I was just getting a bit nobbish about the way it gets done where I have no place to do so : ) By the standards some set out my '13 ride would be a DQ so it's all levels of nobberism / purity. Pure nobbism?

[ianfitz]

^ Ha ..

I should add (after reading some of the above back while dot watching) that 'ethics' is probably the wrong term. Sounds a bit judgemental. Who cares how you ride an event, your call only and it's nothing to be undermined however you do it. I was just getting a bit nobbish about the way it gets done where I have no place to do so : ) By the standards some set out my '13 ride would be a DQ so it's all levels of nobberism / purity. Pure nobbism?

I think it's fair enough to apply ethics on a sliding scale. It's the same in climbing.

The ultimate ascent is first go, on sight, no falls, no info (increasingly hard in the days of social media and video) placing gear on lead. There's a variety of less good styles to climb routes that are less ethical pure but still a lot of fun to do.

[whitestone]

An interesting point which was something Jenny Graham and I discussed at the end of the Highland Trail and it's also a point that my wife has raised, namely: couples riding together. My wife's done ITTs where she's the only woman riding on her own, all the other women are riding as couples. Note that this is not a lack of chivalry on my part, our respective paces are sufficiently different that things become an exercise in frustration for both of us, if we are touring then it's a different matter.

On the HT550 I was expecting to be riding with people less than I actually was but "riding with" is perhaps pushing it, I expected to see fewer riders on the trails after the first day than I did. I actually rode with Pete McNeil for about an hour at the end of the first day and half an hour at the start of the second; rode with Phil Clarke for two to three hours at the end of day two. Was on my own in actual riding terms for the whole of days three and four except maybe five minutes or so riding with Phil Clarke again when heading to the Postman's Path. Was on my own for the last day until Fort Augustus from where I rode with Jenny to the finish. I only met Jenny due to making some route finding errors so it wasn't planned.

On the TDR given the numbers, unless you are a fast rider and out front then you are likely to spend the first few days riding in and around other riders until things get spread out. This is likely regardless of whether you want to ride with someone else or not. There'll be a lot of ebb and flow as riders' natural strengths and weaknesses come into play plus the effects of eating at different times, etc., etc.