middleagedmadness wrote:As in my first reply to the post this will be my first wrt and possibly my 3rd attempt at bikepacking ,but I just don't understand the fear of turning up alone and meeting new people , maybe it's because I've lived in a few different countries and travelled a fair bit ( not in a gypsy kind of way ) and I find it quite easy to chat with strangers ,but everyone on here seems helpful and friendly ,I fully expect to be riding and bivying on my own most of the time but hopefully will get to have a bite to eat or a few pints with some of yous , people in general need to be more accepting of spending time in their own company and learn to enjoy the break from normal routine

benp1 wrote:Started and finished on my own, rode about a third of it with others, and spent both nights camping with others. It was absolutely brilliant

Interesting comments ^

Having not spent any time looking at the spread of waypoints, I'd assumed that much of the weekend would be a solitary experience. Frankly, I can have one of them any time. Just like Sportives, Audaxes etc one of the attractions of an event is the chance to ride with and chat with other folk, in a non-race setting. Maybe the social aspect needs to be clarified, or the event mandates a small number of overnight stopping points rather than the pot luck scenario that currently exists.

As for "is a month enough", see chat further up about route selection and conditions. I wouldn't plan to travel all the way to Wales to experience epic hike-a-bike. I can do that at home. In any other event I've been involved in, either as organiser, participant or supporter, I've found that most folk want to know the route prior to signing up.


I'm not saying the WRT should change, just trying to suggest reasons for the numbers being what they are.

Wifey asked about riding the WRT this morning, it had popped up somewhere on Facebook. She's gone out for the day so we'll discuss it this evening.

In any other event I've been involved in, either as organiser, participant or supporter, I've found that most folk want to know the route prior to signing up.

I think that's probably much to do with it Colin but I feel that aspect can never / should never change ... it's sort of the whole point. If it puts people off, then that'll just have to be an accepted part of the WRT. I can certainly see that if there were a fixed route, then people might like to know what they're getting into but in the case of the WRT, whatever they're getting into is of their own device ... oddly, people happily sign up for the BB200 without knowing what lies ahead. All interesting stuff.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:

Could we get grid points earlier?
Gives more time to plan

{genuine} Really, is a month not long enough?

last year it was all a bit rushed for me to get a route sorted.
bought some paper OS maps to help
might even "cheat" and use sections of the various BB routes
fancy visiting the local bothies, so aiming to have those as a destination. and fish and chips on Friday (or sat) night.
evenings and weekends can be busy thereby reducing map time; yes, I know, make time.
in the end I failed and joined on of the splinter groups.

getting the points early (say eight weeks, just picking a number) would allow more time to procrastinate and ask others for advice on route selection.
then fail again and join a splinter group.

interesting point about grid points highlighting an interesting track

Bearbonesnorm wrote:...people happily sign up for the BB200 without knowing what lies ahead.

we know what lies ahead.
just not where.

For me it's traveling distance, or more exactly how much traveling costs. Having a limited budget to spend on bikepacking means I have to stay fairly local otherwise I'd be back on a regular basis.

Years ago we used to do Trailquests - basically the same format as the WRT but over two to four hours in a smaller area. TQ is usually described as orienteering on bikes. It was pretty popular, might still be. Perhaps some of those doing the Trailquests have, like us, moved on and now do things like the WRT. This year will be our first WRT, the last few years have seen prior engagements or us taking different options for whatever reason, certainly not a conscious decision to avoid it.

A fixed route might cause more problems than it "solves" but then again the BB200 is a prescribed route.

It's a bit like the attitude in climbing where people won't trust protection that they place themselves but are happy to trust pegs and bolts that have been placed by persons unknown and have an uncertain history. Whether there'd be appetite for an event, not necessarily from BB towers, that had a series of pre-planned routes of varying lengths and difficulty remains to be seen. It would take a lot of planning for potentially no reward.

Stu, do people ask you for specific routes?

Stu, do people ask you for specific routes?

Maybe 2 or 3 a year Bob but in fairness they've usually had a go and come unstuck. There's also perhaps half a dozen who'll ask if I can give their route a once over.

Whether there'd be appetite for an event, not necessarily from BB towers, that had a series of pre-planned routes of varying lengths and difficulty remains to be seen.

I think that's a reasonable description of Rich's Jennride.

20 years ago (oh my I am old) I used to do Polaris trail quest.
The spring and autumn events had an overnight camp, bikepacking by another name perhaps???

A set route of varying lengths; surely that is a sportive??? Plenty of those.

Thinking about if for the last hour (been on the turbo trainer) what makes WRT different is the fact that it is different. ((Stu has a ladder, I have a turbo trainer. ))
Fortunately, Stu isn’t seemingly interested in money or glory.

To tweak the formula might break the product; though camping sat night, bacon rolls, and more cake would be welcome.

'odd balls' ??? Hitler, has only got.....etc etc

Steve/Rich, sorry missed you, family stuff. Will try not to forget next time...

WRT - looks like the Panda will be heading up some sort of Lonely Hearts Club again, which may or may not be of assistance to people dipping their toes in the water (literally, usually, with Stu's gridrefs.. possibly salty). Paradox with the LHC is that there probably needs to be a slight element of organisation, to give a little bit of framework for said toe-dippers, but at the same time too much would spoil the whole atmosphere and experience. Panda says she wants a slightly 'looser' feel to it this year and she knows best. Anyway I'm sure something will appear about LHC in all fashionable colour supplements shortly.

Asposium wrote:
To tweak the formula might break the product; though camping sat night, bacon rolls, and more cake would be welcome.

We all know you mean Friday night, of course.
Don't you...?

WRT - looks like the Panda will be heading up some sort of Lonely Hearts Club again,

Ah, perfect. Reg, if you don't mind my dark, brooding presence at the back, I would be honoured if I can join the LHC.

Shout if you want a lift there and back too.

psling wrote:

Asposium wrote:
To tweak the formula might break the product; though camping sat night, bacon rolls, and more cake would be welcome.

We all know you mean Friday night, of course.
Don't you...?

Doh

Perhaps you could put on a basic course on the Friday of the event for anyone who is interested in getting started out in bikepacking but is nervous of their knowledge/skills/abilities. It would mean the commitment of an extra day in mid-Wales for riders but if people were interested enough..?

# An introduction to navigation - basic map reading using OS maps, how bridleways and byways are shown on maps, contours, choosing routes by reading the map taking into account bogs, cliffs, watercourses, etc..
# Basic camp building - finding suitable overnight spots, various tarp set-ups, the use of bivi-bags, sleeping bags, quilts, different types of stove or using local shops/hostelries.

Then perhaps the group could plan their route etc., for the weekend's main event and camp overnight at BB Towers in readiness.
Nothing too intense but a basic introduction to ease any nervousness. I'm sure anyone interested in such a service would be prepared to make a reasonable payment towards refreshments, bits used, etc..

I'm sure you'd have time for all that Stu on the eve of the event!!
ps - I could perhaps be persuaded to help if there was a call for such a course on the day before the event.
pps - I'm talking about 2019 now.
ppps - perhaps I should sell my ladder.

Could work Peter. I shall give it some attention.

Personally I think its just too hard for most people as everyone these days wants to be spoon fed... You really dont want to attract thw wrong crowd into such a thing as the people that are suitable would find such a challenge and join themselves.

I've only just realised myself what WRT is and would be up for it in 2019 maybe. The reason why I'd be reluctant is my navigation skills. My map reading skills (been doing trailquests for past few years to hone them up) along with my dyslexia means I dont always make the correct choice of path and getting caught in a massive bog would really stress me out.

I need to work on how to avoid bogs but have the feeling that I just avoid areas where there is an incline from all 4 sides on the map leasing ti a valley with minimal drainage... If anyone can point me to a place where I can read more about avoiding such thing then itd just mean getting to the WRT that little bit sooner....

BTW Stu, Keep up the good work as its amazing how many events you put on for BBs. Lets just hope tge soets of people that like to moan keeo stating away from such events...

I like the idea of an event where there is no fixed route so throwing navigation and route planning into the mix. Adds a lot more to the format than just the usual turn up switch on gps, follow purple line, go home that other ITT's have. You'll end up appreciating the area more (having done all of the map appraisal / route research etc) and it becomes a more rounded challenge rather than just smashing yourself round a fixed route. I guess a lot of people are navigationally challenged these days and would rather just turn up switch on gps etc. Keep it as it is, and keep it small. I'd like to use it one year as on excuse for along overdue trip to Wales

My tip for mid-Wales bog avoidance is to only select those bridlways that are shown overlaid on dashed black lines. It won't mean there aren't any wet bits but 90% of the time you can be certain that some type of track will be present - not just a RoW.

psling wrote:Perhaps you could put on a basic course on the Friday of the event for anyone who is interested in getting started out in bikepacking but is nervous of their knowledge/skills/abilities. It would mean the commitment of an extra day in mid-Wales for riders but if people were interested enough..?

# An introduction to navigation - basic map reading using OS maps, how bridleways and byways are shown on maps, contours, choosing routes by reading the map taking into account bogs, cliffs, watercourses, etc..
# Basic camp building - finding suitable overnight spots, various tarp set-ups, the use of bivi-bags, sleeping bags, quilts, different types of stove or using local shops/hostelries.

Then perhaps the group could plan their route etc., for the weekend's main event and camp overnight at BB Towers in readiness.
Nothing too intense but a basic introduction to ease any nervousness. I'm sure anyone interested in such a service would be prepared to make a reasonable payment towards refreshments, bits used, etc..

I'm sure you'd have time for all that Stu on the eve of the event!!
ps - I could perhaps be persuaded to help if there was a call for such a course on the day before the event.
pps - I'm talking about 2019 now.
ppps - perhaps I should sell my ladder.

^^ that would make an excellent thing to do on the Saturday of the WRT lite
Something to do with the Mrs and/or kids whilst riding WRT proper.

htrider wrote:I like the idea of an event where there is no fixed route so throwing navigation and route planning into the mix. Adds a lot more to the format than just the usual turn up switch on gps, follow purple line, go home that other ITT's have. You'll end up appreciating the area more (having done all of the map appraisal / route research etc) and it becomes a more rounded challenge rather than just smashing yourself round a fixed route. I guess a lot of people are navigationally challenged these days and would rather just turn up switch on gps etc. Keep it as it is, and keep it small. I'd like to use it one year as on excuse for along overdue trip to Wales

Bravo... Here here...

Pirahna wrote:Wifey asked about riding the WRT this morning, it had popped up somewhere on Facebook. She's gone out for the day so we'll discuss it this evening.

We discussed it and she seemed to like the idea so I've just entered us.

ScotRoutes wrote:Having not spent any time looking at the spread of waypoints, I'd assumed that much of the weekend would be a solitary experience. Frankly, I can have one of them any time. Just like Sportives, Audaxes etc one of the attractions of an event is the chance to ride with and chat with other folk, in a non-race setting. Maybe the social aspect needs to be clarified, or the event mandates a small number of overnight stopping points rather than the pot luck scenario that currently exists.

This rings true from my experiences - I spent more time riding with other folk on the BB200 - perhaps if there was a few suggested 'campsites' for the Sat / Sun night (with a mighty fire pit...), it might allow for a bit more socialising? For those completely unfamiliar with the area, it might provide some confidence they where not aiming to sleep somewhere totally inappropriate. Might be tricky legally, unless you have landowners consent...

That said, on my first WRT I had never not bike-packed for 20 years and just turned up with the maps and checkpoints drawn on, having assumed you had to go to all the CPs in the order they where listed in the email... having done no planning, and with no knowledge of the area, I didn't realise the madness of this concept, but fortunately somebody put me right on the start line. It Is a bit complex for a newbie (and buying the paper maps - for those who don't get on with digital planning tools - adds to the cost), but that's also the attraction, with loads of other events that are brain-in-neutral, followed the gps.

"Imagine an event that lasts 3 days, where there's no set route. One where you get to decide how far you're going to ride and where you're going to stop. A truly non competitive event where the only goal is to get out on your bike and enjoy yourself … what you're imagining is the WRT and what it lacks in rules, it makes up for in adventure.
Since its inception in 2009 the WRT has acted as the perfect introduction to bikepacking for hundreds of riders, with many returning year on year to get their fix. The concept is unique and deceptively simple, a month before the start, a set of grid references are sent out to everyone riding. These reference points form the outline of your route and you can choose to incorporate as many or as few as you like … they usually point you in the direction of good trails or overnight spots. Some people will devise a real epic and include all the points, others will only use one or two and a percentage of riders will ignore all the references and base their route entirely on the locations of pubs and cafes!
Over the years the start of the WRT has become an integral part of the event. The infamous 'weigh in' has become hotly contested with riders vying to be awarded the honour of lightest loaded bike - sadly many have their ultralite aspirations crushed by the scales of truth. Besides the 'weigh in', the start also plays host to a prize-draw with prizes donated by the cycle and outdoor industries. It is also fast becoming a showcase for new products and bikes. The 'ride' part of the event starts around 1.00pm when someone mutters a few words which will end in 'off you go' … what happens over the next 3 days and 2 nights is entirely up to you.
The WRT doesn't have an official finish time, you get back when you get back which for the majority means sometime on Monday afternoon. For many the finish of the WRT holds a special place in their hearts which I'm sure is largely due to the amount of tea and cake on offer plus the chance to swap stories and re-live your adventures before heading for home.
WRT-lite
In 2013 the WRT-lite was introduced to give anyone who wasn't able or didn't want to spend 2 nights out, a chance to take part. The format remains largely the same with a couple of exceptions. Firstly, the overall number of grid references is reduced and a few 'closer to home' ones added. Secondly, the finish day is brought forward from Monday to Sunday but I'm glad to say the cake and tea fest remains unchanged."

The above is the official description of the Welsh Ride Thing taken from the bearbonesbikepacking website. I thought I'd post it here for anyone who may not have previously seen it [apologies to those that have].

I first entered WRT completely blind in 2013. I got a mate to come with me and we had an absolutely brilliant time. Been bike packing ever since. I usually enter all of the BB events and love each one for different reasons.

Winter event for the disgusting conditions, WRT for the length of time and BB200.... well I'm not sure why I love that one...

Stu, my wife runs navigation courses and would maybe be interested in popping up to help out with such a thing if you ever consider adding them to the weekend?

My own view is that I love the WRT just the way it is. I live a good 5hr drive away, but I look forward to coming to Wales every time.

Si

Loved the WRT, not a racer, so this format always appealed! Love the way you can swap n change your route mid ride and no one cares and coming across someone else who is loaded up in the middle of nowhere is like meeting a long lost brother/sister

Haven’t been back since 2013 as the date clashes with my daughters birthday, pretty much the only reason I haven’t return (and the winter versiin clashes with my anniversary!).

I’d say keep the format, although for newbies, the idea of navigating AND finding somewhere to sleep may be too much for some (but intriguing for others!)