{ignoring Rickie}

I think the TD is quite different to the vast majority of ITT. It's had much more exposure over the years than anything else which seems to have lead to it becoming a 'bucket list' tick as already mentioned. As such, it attracts many people who aren't in any way 'bikepackers' (some don't appear to really be cyclists) so they may not be up to speed with the self-supported ethos, self-policing or any form of rules or expected behaviour. However, ignorance is no excuse, the info is out there, it just requires some effort ... but if you don't give a toss about any of that, why bother?

I do foresee a time when the TD will consume itself but if it does happen, I don't think it will greatly impact anything else.

Just reading back through this thread re Rickie's relegation, should point out when I said something along the lines of being suprised how many racers seem to miss the basics of the rules, that wasn't meant to include Ianfitz re messaging her. Sorry Ian if it read that way - was a more general comment and as you said, if she hadn't realised it'd be a DQ anyway. As it is now she won't make that error next time : )
Bit gutted for her but also doubt she's losing sleep over it. Damn quick ride from someone who seems to be having fun as they go!

Edit to add re Stu's post, do we really think many racing are not really bikepackers? Not sure tbh, I didn't get that impression though. I think half the field aren't truly in-deep racing but thats not to do with time on route, at 60 years old you're racing well to do a time that's a quick tour for many others. Agreed about bucket list stuff though. Bikepacking Everest. I still love it as an event, but more due to personal reasons, cowboy country and US county roads etc than anything about bikepacking or racing perhaps.

jameso wrote:Just reading back through this thread re Rickie's relegation, should point out when I said something along the lines of being suprised how many racers seem to miss the basics of the rules, that wasn't meant to include Ianfitz re messaging her. Sorry Ian if it read that way - was a more general comment and as you said, if she hadn't realised it'd be a DQ anyway. As it is now she won't make that error next time : )
Bit gutted for her but also doubt she's losing sleep over it. Damn quick ride from someone who seems to be having fun as they go!

No worries at all James. And I'll be sure to lookout for the turn off myself too!

I was surprised they started in the GD as had understood it was a recce and originally plans were to start a couple of days back.

I've no doubt there'll be a proper go at racing it in the future.

do we really think many racing are not really bikepackers?

That's certainly the impression I get from reading Cordillera. Perhaps it's unrepresentative but year on year, there seems to be an increasing number who by their own admission, have no bikepacking experience or background ... maybe a lot of the bikepackers just can't be arsed writing stuff?

I think if you turn up to the TDR Grand Depart then you should be abiding by the rules. If you want to do it "your own way" then tour it at a different time. I don't think the info about the rules requires effort to find: the first hit on "tour divide rules" takes you to them. Sometimes though it's a bit like horses and water, no matter how many times you put the two together there's no uptake

There's a call out for SPOT registrations for this year's Colorado Trail Race which is limited to 75 riders on the Trackleaders leaderboard due to USFS "group" restrictions though the race itself isn't numbers limited. It's not fair if someone takes one of those places but doesn't intend to play by the rules when it could be taken by someone who does. Having a fell running background where you can line up at the start of a race next to the British/World champion on one side and your club mate on the other. I appreciate the fact that ITTs are equally open to all but at the same time you have to be realistic about your abilities - there's no way I'd keep up with Ian Holmes or Alastair Brownlee! In my previous reply I was going to mention winter ITTs like the Iditarod where you have to show suitable experience of shorter races but even for the TDR this seems against its particular ethos.

I don't think the info about the rules requires effort to find: the first hit on "tour divide rules" takes you to them. Sometimes though it's a bit like horses and water, no matter how many times you put the two together there's no uptake

I never said it required a lot Bob

That's certainly the impression I get from reading Cordillera

Ah OK .. I have to confess I have them up to 2014 but haven't bought it since then. Suspect a fair number are not experienced racers or bikepackers, just one or the other. If you were neither then it probably makes a good read : )

I've read the last 2 volumes and the impression I got is lots of competitors don't seem to know the rules or ethics or care about sticking to them. They get lifts to go back for stuff they've left at the side of the trail, call ahead to reserve rooms, share / borrow gear, ride as groups arranged before they got to the start etc. Most of them start by saying they've seen Ride The Divide and that's about their sum total of experience.

jameso, agree, good points well made.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: I do foresee a time when the TD will consume itself but if it does happen, I don't think it will greatly impact anything else.

I'd almost paraphrase that as "bikepack racing will consume itself"

As James said, maybe it'll revert to underground. Not a bad thing.

James, a lot of people on the 2016 startline were not bikepackers. I stood with a guy who openly was proud that he'd never done a nights camping, or never rode with a loaded bike, being a strong ex-pro roadie he was sure he'd be fine. He scratched before Helena. Lots of others like this at the start now, however, quite a few of them do finish their tours, which is ace. Few are actually racing.

I'd almost paraphrase that as "bikepack racing will consume itself"

If that does happen then I suppose it will have an impact. As James and you both say, it must ultimately lead to 'racing' entering a second Womble phase only a few years after emerging from the first

You could say that bikepack racing has been a way to be a tourer but seem cooler and an 'athlete' of sorts for some for a while now. But the achievements of the guys who set the standards we follow don't diminish and as long as there are riders up front doing it well and others mid-pack riding in a good style and pushing hard all's well in racing. It's not like a niche band that I'm not following since they did Glastonbury main stage or anything like that : )

Oh dear, navel gazing has lead to a feeling and prediction of impending doooooommmmmmm!

I'll fall back on a local colloquialism, fitting for Stu as a Yorkshireman in exile, "it'll be reet"

a Yorkshireman

A f*ckin' what ... how dare you!

[quoteStu as a Yorkshireman in exile/quote]
He'll love you for that

Edit, just too late to prevent the explosion of Lancastrian venom

Bearbonesnorm wrote:

a Yorkshireman

A f*ckin' what ... how dare you!

Whoops!

Lancastrian venom

Not you as well FFS!

Are we just lobbing random accusations of provenance at him? Oh goody - "southerner"


DUCK AND COVER

Thought you were from Wigan or thereabouts, sorry for the vicious slur.

Just to clear things up before we get back onto the impending potential demise of bikepacking.

DERBYSHIRE

He's too happy to be a Yorkshireman

This is bullshit. You broke the rules and got DQed. Grow up. Sore loser. The post has now been deleted too, for PR's sake I assume.

Do yourself a favour, go back next year, race it, don't cheat, and reclaim your reputation. People on here observing your mistake and calling you out is all part of the Tour Divide experience, and quite a few of us have raced it and finished it without getting DQed!

*sigh*

Rules are rules. Break them, get a DQ. No different than breaking rules in any other race. Not really that hard to accept. Or shouldn't be.

Considering Matt has the only right to call if a DQ is enforced, what people voiced, no matter how experienced they were on the route, is secondary to when an infringement has occurred.

Which it did.

Rickie, if you read this, I really hope you go back and do it right. You have the capacity to go far faster and you know it.

mountainbaker wrote:This is bullshit. You broke the rules and got DQed. Grow up. Sore loser. The post has now been deleted too, for PR's sake I assume.

Do yourself a favour, go back next year, race it, don't cheat, and reclaim your reputation. People on here observing your mistake and calling you out is all part of the Tour Divide experience, and quite a few of us have raced it and finished it without getting DQed!

Someone send her a panda

With that thin a skin you should definitely stay off the internet, it'll be bad for your health. As for "right to judge" - get bent It was a bunch of wittering on an obscure internet forum with as much meaning / influence / significance as a fart in a gale.

On a more positive (looney?) note, Ashley Benns is on his way to complete a triple TDR http://trackleaders.com/tourdivide17i.p ... enns_Yo_yo

According to the TDR thread on bikepacking.net he and Billy Rice are the only ones known to have completed a Yo-yo