Missing the point?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Although a bit of me knows I shouldn't mention this, there's another part of me that simply can't resist ... sorry

I spotted that Coed Y Brenin have recently opened 100km of new tracks and obviously that is a good thing if it helps get bums on saddles. From what I can tell these tracks are mainly way marked fire-road. They state that they're non-technical and are aimed towards Gravel bikes / riders and (their words not mine) Adventure cyclists. Is it me or does the inclusion of that there word in relation to easy way marked trails seem to be at odds and maybe even smack a little of bandwagon jumping?

[MuddyPete]

Perhaps we need to think up a new word to define The Experience Formerly Known As Adventure?

[Bearlegged]

Something that's probably applicable to the other recent thread on Adventure™, but I recently attended one of the "Reframing Mountain Biking" events. A common theme in the discussions (and also to some extent on here) is that the MTB portrayed in the media (especially advertising) is generally very DH/enduro/shred/gnar/rad air etc. If you tell people new to [flat bar off road bikes with suspension and wide tyres] that they're going on MTB trails, this may be off-putting. For all that Adventure™ is clearly the marketing buzzword du jour, it may be just the nice, non-threatening description that some people need to get them engaged and out onto the trails.

[Bearlegged]

Also, I can't help but keep thinking of this:



Just replace [stats] with [buzzword].

[Lazarus]

Its juat marketting and internet willy wavimg about mundane thing

Come do a 100km adventure ride in remote wales is far better (on insta) than just ride a tame signposted trail you could take your nan and kids on tonthe mug danglers amd armchair adventurers

Seee alao Wild swimmimg or as it used to be known swimming

[faustus]

https://www.beicsbrenin.co.uk/news/launch/

I heard about this too, and aside from the 'adventure' debate and marketing terminology, I see it as a positive to have more waymarked off road trails. It gives more types of cyclist on different types of bike, more options for riding off road. It could also serve as a platform for some to take their riding further afield and make their own adv...journeys into the countryside

It'll also hopefully help keep CyB going, considering recent issues with the cost of running the visitor's centre and such like.

[Itchynuts]

Come do a 100km adventure ride in remote wales is far better (on insta) than just ride a tame signposted trail you could take your nan and kids on tonthe mug danglers amd armchair adventurers

Don't knock it.

If it gets more people onto bikes its good. I'm not a nan but I am a granddad so looking to the future if I take my grandkids on some easy signposted trails it might inspire them to become the next generation of cyclists. If only the sons and daughters of hard core off road cyclists are exposed to off road cycling then their numbers can only dwindle and in a few years there will be non left.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I really don't think anyone including myself is saying it's a bad thing but that the marketing bollox really ought to stop. Personally, I tend to feel that if not, then before too long many people will have little idea about what's real and what's fantasy

[boxelder]

It's a matter of perception I guess - going what seems like a long way into a forest (especially a Welsh one of ) will be an adventure for some. Lots of riders fing events like Dirty Reiver a big adventure. I guess pushing yourself to do something bigger than before has an element of uncertainty, and therefore adventure. I know what you mean though.....

[jameso]

Something that's probably applicable to the other recent thread on Adventure™, but I recently attended one of the "Reframing Mountain Biking" events. A common theme in the discussions (and also to some extent on here) is that the MTB portrayed in the media (especially advertising) is generally very DH/enduro/shred/gnar/rad air etc. If you tell people new to [flat bar off road bikes with suspension and wide tyres] that they're going on MTB trails, this may be off-putting. For all that Adventure™ is clearly the marketing buzzword du jour, it may be just the nice, non-threatening description that some people need to get them engaged and out onto the trails.

100% this.

And if bikepacking and touring get too into what is and isn't Adventure or being a mug danglling hipster or not, we might be the next riding culture that people find off-putting : )

Agree with those saying it's all just relative. The Adventure marketing bandwagon is overloaded and headed for a cliff anyway, I reckon any brand who understands what's going on behind the term or within the scene will find other things to talk about soon enough. Marketing is about competition for attention so leads are followed and it will always trend towards hyperbole, it's just how it is.. nothing new there.

[JackT]

Something that's probably applicable to the other recent thread on Adventure™, but I recently attended one of the "Reframing Mountain Biking" events. A common theme in the discussions (and also to some extent on here) is that the MTB portrayed in the media (especially advertising) is generally very DH/enduro/shred/gnar/rad air etc. If you tell people new to [flat bar off road bikes with suspension and wide tyres] that they're going on MTB trails, this may be off-putting. For all that Adventure™ is clearly the marketing buzzword du jour, it may be just the nice, non-threatening description that some people need to get them engaged and out onto the trails.

Agree with this analysis. I think there's a real demand for easy off road (i.e. traffic free) trails that you could ride on what continental Europeans would call a trekking bike and what we used to call a hybrid. Many people just don't want to mix with the ever-increasing traffic on the roads, but aren't adrenaline-pumped trail centre types either. Aversion to motor traffic is a central aspect of the gravel / adventure boom but gets less prominence in the marketing than the epic sunsets and craft beers in wild places lifestyle stuff.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think there's a real demand for easy off road (i.e. traffic free) trails that you could ride on what continental Europeans would call a trekking bike and what we used to call a hybrid. Many people just don't want to mix with the ever-increasing traffic on the roads, but aren't adrenaline-pumped trail centre types either.

That is exactly what the press spiel said Jack and it's bang on right ... but then they went and spoilt it

[JackT]

I think there's a real demand for easy off road (i.e. traffic free) trails that you could ride on what continental Europeans would call a trekking bike and what we used to call a hybrid. Many people just don't want to mix with the ever-increasing traffic on the roads, but aren't adrenaline-pumped trail centre types either.

That is exactly what the press spiel said Jack and it's bang on right ... but then they went and spoilt it

We're back at the 'what is adventure' question (referring to gravel bikes is absolutely legit - they're the hybrids of today).

The Crane cousins once defined an adventure as “problems we couldn’t predict yet which we could survive”. They believed a good adventure should be “difficult without being agonising, dangerous without being suicidal, exotic without being obscure and awkward without being impossible.”

An element of difficulty, jeopardy and novelty is essential to it, but this will be highly subjective. One person's leisurely pootle is another person's near death experience. (On that point, maybe we should envy the people who find it easy to experience "an adventure" because of their youth and / or inexperience. Whereas the older / more experienced among us have to undertake ever more obscure and risky endeavours to get an adventure / jeopardy fix).

I used to think Adventure Cycling was long distance cycle touring (as in the Adventure Cycling Association in America) but with the era of Microadventures it's come to mean any kind of cycling where the objective isn't primarily about sport, fitness or utility cycling, but more to do with engaging with your surroundings, going somewhere new, maybe getting lost but not minding too much. Not sure how way marked trails fit into that, but maybe for some (many) people, it's adventure enough just to get out of the car and onto a bike for an afternoon.

[Bearbonesnorm]

They believed a good adventure should be “difficult without being agonising, dangerous without being suicidal, exotic without being obscure and awkward without being impossible.”

Is riding a bike on a reasonably smooth gravel road for a couple of hours really any of those things for 95% of the population though? I don't recall places such as the Tissington Trail been allied with 'adventure'.

Marketing nonsense aside, I suppose I tend to view this and similar instances as examples of a world where the bar seems to be continually lowered but I'd prefer to live in one where people are encouraged to raise themselves up instead.

[Alpinum]

[...]many people will have little idea about what's real and what's fantasy

Did you really just write that?
I thought that'd be something I'd happily come up with, but am a bit surprised to see this come from your quill.

I know what I think is real (and I tok think you have a good understanding of my POV) and have been, for the right reasons, been mocked when going on about it.

Anyways, off to ride my bike and get wet pants (just some rain you know) for the 4th time today.

[fatbikephil]

There is a fair bit of mapping of forest tracks up this way, and promoting them as gravel routes (eg. GravelFoyle around Aberfoyle / Queen Elizabeth forest) but no mention of the Adventure word. 'Spose it's just a word innit, as long as it delivers some nice cycling for people then that's fine. It would be even better if they through some cash at a network of easy gravel / dust paths for cycling on...

[Bearbonesnorm]

but am a bit surprised to see this come from your quill.

Really, now I'm surprised

[JackT]

I've had a look at the publicity here https://www.beicsbrenin.co.uk/news/launch/

1711558236-NEW ROUTES VIEW.jpg (148.98 KiB) Viewed 509 times

Yeah, 'waymarked adventure" is a bit of an oxymoron. Reading between the lines I reckon someone thought (like my publisher a couple of years back) that gravel biking is so hot right now that they'd better have some gravel / entry-level off-road routes. And then when it came to the publicity they shoe-horned 'adventure' in because they thought it would broaden the appeal beyond gravel bike aficionados. Notwithstanding the current hotness of gravel in bike world, most of the population doesn't inhabit bike world, if they own a bike its a hardtail or a hybrid and for them "gravel" is more likely to conjure Tom Waits's vocal stylings or a posh driveway than a bike ride.

Seems to me like a decent idea for some new trails followed by a bit of marketing-by-committee, rather some grand conspiracy or a doom spiral towards a complete lack of moral fibre.

[BridlewayBimbler]

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick? But I'm really not sure why anyone would be bothered by this?
If it encourages people to get onto bikes and out into the countryside then surely that's a good thing. There's already enough gatekeeping, elitism, tribalism and snobbery in cycling which discourages the average person from bothering. If a bit of 'marketing bollox' encourages people and breaks down some of these barriers then I 'm all for it!

[fatbikephil]

I think it's the use of the word 'adventure' that has got us all steamed up.

However, 'Adventure' has been used to describe a type of motorcycle for the last 15 years and it's a far worse use of such a term given that the majority of riders of such things only go on the road.

In other news I've just ridden the best part of 200k round the Cairngorms - it wasn't an adventure as I know every bit of the route so well, but the bunch I passed earlier were definitely having a real adventure!

[Bearbonesnorm]

But I'm really not sure why anyone would be bothered by this?
If it encourages people to get onto bikes and out into the countryside then surely that's a good thing. There's already enough gatekeeping, elitism, tribalism and snobbery in cycling which discourages the average person from bothering. If a bit of 'marketing bollox' encourages people and breaks down some of these barriers then I 'm all for it!

As I think everyone has already said, more bums on saddles is a good thing. However, it's the mis-selling that I find annoying and potentially even limiting with regard to the number of bums on seats it might generate (given the actual target market). That promotional picture up there ^ is a bag of misrepresentation and contradiction. A bit of honesty and truth wouldn't go amiss once in a while.

[Itchynuts]

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick? But I'm really not sure why anyone would be bothered by this?
If it encourages people to get onto bikes and out into the countryside then surely that's a good thing. There's already enough gatekeeping, elitism, tribalism and snobbery in cycling which discourages the average person from bothering. If a bit of 'marketing bollox' encourages people and breaks down some of these barriers then I 'm all for it!

I must have the wrong end of the stick as well. I'm gobsmacked this thread is still going.
I've tried hard to be offended by the advertisement but I actually think it's a good way of getting more people out and about. I think there is being a serious amount of over reaction here. When it comes to the crunch if your thing is to push your body to the limit and have a near death experience every half hour then thats fine, carry on by all means because nobody is going to drag you kicking and screaming to a tarmaced track.

[Lazarus]

Given you colourful OTT hype language of this thread i am thinking you might have written the description whose offended?
The point is its just a 6 km signposted fire road(its not even one big loop). The route is many things but adventure isnt one of them.
If it is i am off for an adventure run along a canal(its more adventurous as its not signposted )

No one is against more participation, at any level, we just want less BS. Its not an adventure its a safe risk assesseed signed route/ just a bike ride somewhere nice and traffic free with no real danger.

[psling]

... maybe we should envy the people who find it easy to experience "an adventure" because of their youth and / or inexperience. Whereas the older / more experienced among us have to undertake ever more obscure and risky endeavours to get an adventure / jeopardy fix).

I think this is a valid point. When I was young an adventure involved a few mates, a mischievous dog and lashings of ginger beer. As you get older with more life experiences your expectations maybe become greater.

When I was a child, I caught a fleeting glimpse
out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look, but it was gone.
I cannot put my finger on it now
the child is grown, the dream has gone.

Sweepstake on what the next buzz word will be anyone...?

[Itchynuts]

Sweepstake on what the next buzz word will be anyone...?

Dropped