Really?

[Pyro]

Me, I'm still waiting to discover what the difference is between a paid for event that sends riders out across the countryside on a legal pre-determined route and an ITT that sends riders out across the countryside on a legal pre-determined route

In that case, the definition of 'legal' is the difference, and the question of whether a mass-start ITT (in being classed as an 'organised event') is 'legal' on the predetermined route without Landowner permission, Stu.

[redefined_cycles]

Dark Skys I assume is the toughest version as indicated on the poster right??

No, the full True Grit loop, The Outlaw. Dark Skies is probably a slightly easier loop, just made more complicated for some by being at night

In which case I might need the gx pls sir

[Pyro]

For soke reason when i click thw TrueGrit gpx it only dwnnloads the DarkSkys for me... are they just one and the same/similar but one being a night ride??

No, very different. Separate start locations and different access.
It may be that there's no True Grit GPX files out as this year's route hasn't been released yet - it's at another new start location after 2 years in one place.

[Bearbonesnorm]

n that case, the definition of 'legal' is the difference, and the question of whether a mass-start ITT (in being classed as an 'organised event') is 'legal' on the predetermined route without Landowner permission, Stu.

Uhm, so we're assuming that the organisers of paid for events seek the permission of all land owners that the route passes over?

[Pyro]

Uhm, so we're assuming that the organisers of paid for events seek the permission of all land owners that the route passes over?

All the ones I've ever worked on have, Stu (and that's quite a lot for quite a lot of different companies over the past 20 years). Whether that's via Highways, Police, commoners commissions or directly to each landowner, yes. I've been the one doing the door-knocking, and I've been the one phoning round people, and I've been the one accosted by an angry drunk farmer with a (fortunately not loaded) shotgun who'd conveniently forgotten that I'd spoken to him twice in the past month to remind him that an event was passing his way. Not even on his land, in this instance, just on the road past his farm entrance.

I'm not saying some organisers might not...