Informal Riding ‘clubs’ Liability

[Chew]

Looking for a bit of general advice and generally I’ll get more useful answers on here rather than on the other place.

I’m a member of two cycling groups:
One road based, which is a formal club, has membership and everyone has their own insurance via BC/CUK
The other is MTB, and is informal. No membership/insurance etc

Same situation where everyone meets at a location/time every week for a social ride.
In the majority of situations I ‘lead’ the ride.
Decide where we go, set the pace, make sure we don’t lose anyone, etc….


Legally where would my responsibilities start/finish?


Just trying to put in a few things to stop Ambulance Chasers

[ScotRoutes]

Just trying to put in a few things to stop Ambulance Chasers

IMO putting anything in will lead to a world of pain as you've then formalised it..

[psling]

If the MTB ride is a group of friends meeting up and isn't advertised to people outside of the group of friends as being a guided ride then I'd say it is just that, even if it's you that ends up leading the way each week. A group of friends with no liability.

If on the other hand the ride is more formally arranged than that and you are acting as a 'guide' then you may be open to potential claim should there be an incident (not from a rider usually, but more likely from family of rider).
If no payment is made for your services it's not a commercial venture which should mitigate the likelihood of a claim.
If you are acting as a guide for an arranged paid for ride then your liability would be considerable. Disclaimers are usually not worth the paper they are written on in law. The ride leader would need to show they have been diligent in planning the ride, has shown a duty of care towards the riders and carried out some form of risk assessment of the route and conditions and managed the group during the ride.

Just trying to put in a few things to stop Ambulance Chasers

Sometimes doing this actually formalises the whole thing and could make matters worse (as Colin says). Possibly a case of 'accepting a bit of responsibility' leads to a misconception of 'accepting full reponsibility'.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Pretty much covered above Chew. Keep it as informal as possible, no paperwork, no advertising and let someone else pick a route from time to time. In order for there to be a claim, negligence would need to be proved (a very hard thing to do usually), also, they'd need to find someone to claim against which would be difficult with no formal structure.

[RIP]

As said, not to be taken lightly this question. Potentially a big world of pain if you're not careful. But as also said, considerable mileage in not advertising or charging. Is 'being at the front' leading? Hmm. Is suggesting certain routes or courses of action 'leading'? Just postfix with 'up to you to decide/choose'? Brit Cycling 'Ride' membership covers £15m third-party but that's only a little consolation when it happens...

Goes off to double-check Lonely Hearts Club T&C's.....

[Oli.vert]

I asked this question of some insurance/legal people in regard to organising dive trips a few years ago, their answers were more or less all about whether any money has been exchanged, either in chartering a boat or accommodation for the group. It seems that any form of group payment muddies the waters considerably, and if say train tickets where paid for for the group, then it would be sensible to add a sentence to an email making it explicitly clear that this payment is to simplify travel arrangements only, and that each individual remains responsible for themselves at all times" etc.
Reg's T+Cs for the lonely hearts club were pretty good I thought and covered what was required pretty well.

If no money has changed hands then you are most likely just mates going riding.

[RIP]

Thank you for the comments Oli..

[Wotsits]

I’m in a local mtb club which went through this a few years ago. A relatively new member was riding in the local woods with other club members on a ‘non-official ride’. He went over a jump, landed badly, broke his neck & back in several places & unfortunately sustained life changing injuries.

I don’t know the complete details of what went on, there wasn’t a claim, but I think the club treated it as a warning & basically the end result was that it made sure that it had adequate insurance.

Chew, if you want I could try to get the chairman’s contact details, he’s a decent bloke & think he’d be more than happy to help if he can..

[middleagedmadness]

Not sure with riding but when I had my climbing accident( not fully life changing but off work for 12 months with a lump of metal screwed into my leg and 4years later still can't run on it) it was just a bunch of us out on a Sunday so no one was to blame and I quite firmly believe that not one of us would have tried to sue whoever was belaying , when undertaking any sport/ hobby there's a element of risk involved which in my opinion should be accepted by all participants ,I do believe there is way too much hand holding in general these days , at least once a month I end up with cuts or bruises from work but it's accepted that it's part of a manual job ,if giving instruction it's a bit of a knife edge because if someone is insisting on trying a jump or route even when they know there not capable it's upto the instructor in the eyes of the law to assess the risks and not let the participants do that particular route ,I personally do not envy any instructor theses days as it's so easy for them to be dragged through the courts by people who refuse to accept personal responsibility