TMB end of March = snowy fatbike fun?

[Mr Arbuckle]

I guess I'm just after a bit of reassurance really, Ive booked my flights and the 12 weeks countdown begins..... Am going to ride the TMB solo self supported wild camping on the top of the peaks along the route and I've got 5 and a bit days to do it in.
I'm starting from Martigny and picking up the route at the northern most point and riding it clockwise. Looking at some of the google maps images and youtube vids for end of March it looks like it will at least 80% snow covered.
Will this make it more tricky or will it actually make the route easier?
anyone done this or similar routes in the snow at that time of the year?
Cheers

[gairym]

Morning,

That's some goal you've set for yourself

I've no idea of your high mountain winter experience but unless your mountaineering skills are turned all the way up to 11 you're going to struggle with this one!

I live in Chamonix and have ridden the whole route a number of times and various parts of the route in assorted winter conditions and there's no way in hell you'd get me trying that at that time of year.

Even if you're fully competent with your alpine winter mountaineering I'm not sure why you'd want to take that route on with a fatbike???

You'll essentially be snowshoeing for days on end (5 days is a sniff optimistic IMHO) with brief respites of rideable sections in the valleys.

I had a mate who attempted to be the first guy to fatbike the TMB a few years ago and I had to pick him up after the first big Col after he thought he was going to die and decided to stop immediately.

Here's an overly dramatic article written about his attempt*:

http://www.sidetracked.com/tour-du-mont ... y-fatbike/

*Don't be fooled by the stunning photos, those were all staged prior to the attempt by the author of the article who's a photographer (most of them weren't taken on the TMB route at all).

I know this mildly pessimistic response won't be what you had in mind and so I'll let you respond before I say any more (where you tell me you've climbed Everest and that this will be a walk in the park etc...) but I'll just say that I'm not trying to be negative only to highlight what an undertaking this would be at that time of year.

Living locally I'll happily lend a hand and help with any aspect of the trip that I can if it happens and with any info or intel during the preparation.

Just let me know if there's anything you need and sorry to be so negative.

Cheers, Gairy.

[Alpinum]

Will this make it more tricky or will it actually make the route easier?
anyone done this or similar routes in the snow at that time of the year?

Will make it easier. You're right in assuming that some spots are tricky and dangerous with snow, but even riskier with little snow, so get accustomed to not following the hiking route in places depending on snow conditions. But in general your chances are higher end of March than, say, end of February.

I've traversed a few Alpine passes in the midst of winter.



Pushing for hours at about 2 km/h with the bike trying to get stuck. When conditions allow to ride it's like sprinting uphill with a chariot tied to the bike, filled with a 50 kg baby.


But then there's also chances for a stable crust that allows for riding uphill too, with speed greater than that of ski touring.

How you get onwards depends only a little bit on you and much more on the prevailing conditions.
I'd get as much floatation as possible and go tubeless so that I can ride with deflated tyres.
Have plan b and c ready and know them well.

Spring time is an avalanche beast on south facing slopes, but if your considering TMB at this time of year I'm sure you know that.

A few years ago I had to sit out a storm in April. It snowed 180 cm in 1.5 days. 1.8 m.
Strictly stick to the many and good mountain weather forecasts for the Mont Blanc area.

Geoff might be a helpful resource. Gairy M. knows him. He's from Chamonix and tried to 'ride' the TMB.
http://www.sidetracked.com/tour-du-mont ... y-fatbike/

I've many years of winter mountaineering experience in the Massif du MB and a bunch of years fatbiking experience in the wintry Alps too. Give a shout when ever you're uncertain or need support otherwise.

[Alpinum]

Gairy beats me to it.

[gairym]

Gairy beats me to it.

[benp1]

Personally, I would massively trust the advice of the two BBers above!

How about a lower level route or walking it?

[whitestone]

When I saw the post my first thoughts were: get Gairy and Alpinum on here!

Presumably the OP is flying into Geneva in which case there's the Jura mountains to the north along the French - Swiss border. I do believe that Gairy organised a fat bike weekend there earlier this year -http://fatbiking.eu/?p=7812 Not as spectacular as Chamonix admittedly but a better chance of getting some riding done.

[Borderer]

What is TMB please?

[NewRetroTom]

What is TMB please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_du_Mont_Blanc

[Borderer]

Thanks

[Mr Arbuckle]

Ok so I get the impression that I am being overly optimistic with my plans LOL.
I don't particularly want to die on THIS trip so might look at something else if its really going to be that hazardous.

Still flying into Geneva though, I did the MTB national route 1 in 2016 but in August and it was pretty tame and mostly road so wanted something a bit more aggressive. May take a look at the Jura route mentioned.

I want a loop rather than an out and back and I land in Geneva at 5pm on Saturday and leave again on Friday at 5pm so have exactly 6 days from landing to take off.

quite happy to climb till my lungs explode if the views are rewarding. Any alternative routes that are ride-able and aren't going to kill me dead!

[Chew]

I don't particularly want to die on THIS trip so might look at something else if its really going to be that hazardous

Without sounding overly harsh, it does seem like you may have been a bit naive thinking about a trip like this without having completed comprehensive research.

I'd be asking myself:
1) How much experience do you have in riding on snow
2) How much experience do you have camping in sub zero temperatures
3) How much winter alpine experience do you have

If the answer is plenty, then apologies and crack on, otherwise heed Gairy's and Alpin's advice.

[Mr Arbuckle]

Sub zero don't really bother me, I have suitable gear and clothing and experience, been at altitude and camped at altitude, well 7000ft + which isn't too far off the highest point on this route of 8300ft. I have to admit I haven't had a huge amount of fatbike experience in the snow but how hard can it be? surely that's what fatbikes where designed for!

Here is the route just in case its different from the route you all had in mind...

http://www.bikepacking.com/routes/tour-du-mont-blanc/

[NewRetroTom]

Yes, that is the route we're all thinking of. It is a cracking route. Here is a video I made when I did it a few years ago (end of September, so virtually no snow). https://vimeo.com/75344691

Having lived in Chamonix for 3 years there is no way I would consider this route in March. I have had some extremely sketchy moments bum sliding out of control with my bike while attempting some trails at the start of June.

I think the chances of being killed to death if you went ahead with this plan would be pretty high. Either from avalanche or from sliding into a ravine on some steep icy snow.

[Mr Arbuckle]

I might change my plans

looking at a more rideable route from airport up to Crêt de la Neige then along the ridge and through the forests to monte tendre - total route about 100 ish miles and the potential for death is significantly reduced, my wife WILL be please although that life insurance claim form seems to have suddenly appeared

[gairym]

Sub zero don't really bother me

Just for reference I went for a little ride on Sunday morning (on the TMB route actually) and it was -13°c and with wind-chill felt more like -18°c - a tad nippy!

That was at 1500m max and so at up at 2500m it would have been properly bracing.

In march you could have sunshine and 5°c or howling gales and -20°c, you never know (and wouldn't until a few days before)???

All-in-all I think the wisest option would be to ride another route at that time of year.

Funnily enough I was going to suggest to Gian another Jura bikepacking trip for March anyway so if your were interested maybe it could become something a little more sociable (feel free to want your freedom and solitude, no offence would be taken)?

The Jura is long and relatively thin but there'd be plenty of options for a loop that is essentially an out and back on different trails (would feel entirely loop-like).

[Alpinum]

I have to admit I haven't had a huge amount of fatbike experience in the snow but how hard can it be? surely that's what fatbikes where designed for!

Super hard.
I'm fittest biking in spring. Despite getting ready for stuff like HT550, the last couple of years I felt strongest in March.
That's just down to the cruelty of riding in snow from November to April.

I was out last night on what would have been a very gentle ride with about 400 m vert gain and laughable 8 km. Took us nearly 1:20 min, with out breaks!
My legs are still ringing. it's like sprinting all out for 1 min. Regain composure for 1 min. Sprint all out. Repeat.
Or push... exertion is way beyond how & what I ride usually.

Trying to see what your background is, I do absolutely not recommend going towards Chamonix for the TMB. Chamonix, Entrèves must have some fantastic fatbiking (besides the TMB) - Gairy will be able to point you to some stunning options with great views, I'm sure.

For the end of March chances aren't too bad for some really good fatbiking in the Jura.
Gairy and I had a great time with loads of riding on crusted snow in a March a few years ago. But here too, it helps heaps to know your sh!t about snow - how it transforms in the sun and in the shade, leeward, windward etc. get a compact book about avi safety - you'll not really need it in the Jura, but it will help you decide where to ride.
Unless it just dumps down, like it did when I was there with Karl B. last year. Which was fun too as even the major roads where covered.

Funnily enough I was going to suggest to Gian another Jura bikepacking trip for March anyway so if your were interested maybe it could become something a little more sociable (feel free to want your freedom and solitude, no offence would be taken)?

Sounds great. Count me in

Mr. Arbuckle, I have some routes for the Jura starting at the train station in La Givrine and heading NE and going on for ages but also looping back on different tracks with multiple options to divert or bail out. Happy to send them if you fancy.

More good riding can also be found between Villars or Leysin and Saanen/Gstaad. Gsteig and Lauenen, both close to Gstaad are stunning.

[Mr Arbuckle]

Yeah, was tempted with saanen and Gstaad, enjoyed riding through their the other year in the summer. perhaps Il;l just go where the fancy takes me along that ridge through the Jura national park, Thanks for the offer of a more sociable ride but this is my get away from it all on my won ride and camp.

[Alpinum]

Good choice. Jura is quieter than Cham area.
Much space to get lost and be lonely

[Pirahna]

If you're looking for a loop, I found 2 Jura ish routes, one through France and the other Switzerland. This is the French one https://www.gtj.asso.fr/itineraires-et- ... gtj-a-vtt/

I had planned to ride them last year with wifey but didn't. The Swiss one is on here https://www.bikepack-switzerland.com/en/ I think it's fairly easy to join the two routes together.

[gairym]

Thanks for the offer of a more sociable ride but this is my get away from it all on my won ride and camp.

Understood! I go a bit mental if I don't get sufficient me time.

Gian, I'll give you a shout nearer the time but let's loosely pencil in a nice little few day trip in March (at this point all dates are possibilities). Am easy on location, happy to travel a bit.

[Alpinum]

let's loosely pencil in a nice little few day trip in March (at this point all dates are possibilities). Am easy on location, happy to travel a bit.

Will do.
There's a lot of options in the Jura