TDR 2017
Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew
- stevenshand
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Re: TDR 2017
My understanding with Rickie (and Lee) was that they were never in it really to compete at the pointy end. To be honest I was surprised to see them included in the mass start. They've been making a film through all of this and I suspect that riding 100% in the spirit of the route as a race was never really on their mind. Rickie's always talked to me about racing it next year, and was treating this year as a bit of a recce mission.
Re: TDR 2017
Wrote an answer. Deleted it. Wrote another. Deleted it.
I hope they enjoyed their ride.
I hope they enjoyed their ride.
![Image](https://veloviewer.com/SigImage/21149/2/6/M/p/bjlniozzzz.png)
- mountainbaker
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Re: TDR 2017
+1GregMay wrote:I hope they enjoyed their ride.
- stevenshand
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Re: TDR 2017
I'm pretty sure I know what you wrote. I think I probably feel the same way.I hope they enjoyed their ride.
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
Utterly baffling exchangestevenshand wrote:I'm pretty sure I know what you wrote. I think I probably feel the same way.I hope they enjoyed their ride.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
- fatbikephil
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Re: TDR 2017
+1stevenshand wrote:I'm pretty sure I know what you wrote. I think I probably feel the same way.I hope they enjoyed their ride.
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Re: TDR 2017
from Adventure Syndicate instagram
Rickie and Lee have now made it to Grants, 376 miles from the end of the Tour Divide, only to receive some bad news - Rickie has been disqualified from the race, after accepting a lift from her overnight host in Como back up to the top of Boreas Pass (approximately 10km) the morning after missing the singletrack descent in the dark.
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Although Rickie has so far covered the entire Tour Divide route under her own power, the rules dictate that racers may not accept lifts, even outside of the course, unless they have a medical or mechanical emergency.
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"I'm understandably gutted my time will be DQ'd," says Rickie, "but this journey is about so much more than my time being registered on some leaderboard. Lee and I will carry on to Antelope Wells and finish the route in the spirit in which we started it. With passion and commitment and in an effort to document it in order to inspire others to get out there and have their own adventure."
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"She's been fucking amazing," says Lee. "And regardless of race rules, her ride deserves to be recognised for the incredible achievement it is. The Tour Divide isn't easy, and we've both pushed ourselves further than we've ever gone before. Whether or not Rickie officially 'finishes' feels almost irrelevant at the moment."
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Lee and Rickie will continue to ride towards the finish line on the Mexican border, which they hope to reach sometime on Thursday. #tourdivide2017 #tourdivide
Rickie and Lee have now made it to Grants, 376 miles from the end of the Tour Divide, only to receive some bad news - Rickie has been disqualified from the race, after accepting a lift from her overnight host in Como back up to the top of Boreas Pass (approximately 10km) the morning after missing the singletrack descent in the dark.
.
Although Rickie has so far covered the entire Tour Divide route under her own power, the rules dictate that racers may not accept lifts, even outside of the course, unless they have a medical or mechanical emergency.
.
"I'm understandably gutted my time will be DQ'd," says Rickie, "but this journey is about so much more than my time being registered on some leaderboard. Lee and I will carry on to Antelope Wells and finish the route in the spirit in which we started it. With passion and commitment and in an effort to document it in order to inspire others to get out there and have their own adventure."
.
"She's been fucking amazing," says Lee. "And regardless of race rules, her ride deserves to be recognised for the incredible achievement it is. The Tour Divide isn't easy, and we've both pushed ourselves further than we've ever gone before. Whether or not Rickie officially 'finishes' feels almost irrelevant at the moment."
.
Lee and Rickie will continue to ride towards the finish line on the Mexican border, which they hope to reach sometime on Thursday. #tourdivide2017 #tourdivide
Re: TDR 2017
thats interesting, don't you DQ yourself when you've taken a lift ?
I did when I rode the Kiwi Brevet, on day two, faced with severe heat stroke and forest fires I did the sensible thing and took a lift out from a DIC ranger, once safe I rang the organisers to say what I had done and that I was DQing myself, there was never any question of me not doing this
I assume that anyone doing events like this would automatically do the same thing
regardless of the race rules ?, did they really say that ?
I did when I rode the Kiwi Brevet, on day two, faced with severe heat stroke and forest fires I did the sensible thing and took a lift out from a DIC ranger, once safe I rang the organisers to say what I had done and that I was DQing myself, there was never any question of me not doing this
I assume that anyone doing events like this would automatically do the same thing
regardless of the race rules ?, did they really say that ?
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
From the "rules" link Greg posted previously:
She didn't turn her Spot off for the trip up / in the truck so looks like she just fecked up / had a "senior moment". sub standard happens and whilst I get it might be emotional when the update from Instagram was posted, yep, it seems to be a DQ so far as I know or understand it. Tough turkey and move on.
I say all this whilst also marvelling, admiring and envying someone doing something I can only dream off at present![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
So kinda fits with what you're saying Steve.No rider will be notified of possible relegation mid-race. It is the sole responsibility of all riders to know the rules, police themselves, and in cases of course deviation, recognize their error + correct it before proceeding on route. Ideally any rider who defaults on any part of rules 2 through 5 will honorably scratch from the GC. As stated in rule 7, "TD is...a do-it-yourself challenge...racers alone must police themselves".
She didn't turn her Spot off for the trip up / in the truck so looks like she just fecked up / had a "senior moment". sub standard happens and whilst I get it might be emotional when the update from Instagram was posted, yep, it seems to be a DQ so far as I know or understand it. Tough turkey and move on.
I say all this whilst also marvelling, admiring and envying someone doing something I can only dream off at present
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
Re: TDR 2017
Yeah, there's not much leeway, or much that's unclear with this:
"In the event of a serious mechanical or medical emergency that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem."
(emphasis mine)
but it would be not impossible to read some of the section around it as "if I get off the route, as long as I return to and restart from the exact spot I'm still OK, it doesn't matter how I return", although as Cheeky says I assume it was not with anything like bad intention.
"In the event of a serious mechanical or medical emergency that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem."
(emphasis mine)
but it would be not impossible to read some of the section around it as "if I get off the route, as long as I return to and restart from the exact spot I'm still OK, it doesn't matter how I return", although as Cheeky says I assume it was not with anything like bad intention.
- Bearbonesnorm
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Re: TDR 2017
Yes, given the level of experience I can't believe that Rickie hadn't realised taking a lift would result in a DQ. Without trying to sound like a tw*t (although I rarely manage it), you can't enter something then mumble when the 'rules' don't suit your situation or circumstance.
May the bridges you burn light your way
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
Ah, it's not just me that raised an eyebrow at the what I thought was an implied "but we weren't racing anyway" vibe.Bearbonesnorm wrote:Yes, given the level of experience I can't believe that Rickie hadn't realised taking a lift would result in a DQ. Without trying to sound like a tw*t (although I rarely manage it), you can't enter something then mumble when the 'rules' don't suit your situation or circumstance.
Hey ho, still sounds like great fun and mighty impressive undertaking
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
One of these:
![Image](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sedae8ltYCY/WTaT-2UOQyI/AAAAAAAAGEc/P-FccfEyhdou10uVH6r6xKK5iJuS-8ATACLcB/s1600/not-like-that%2521-small.jpg)
or one of these:
![Image](https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5604/29738501654_b927020509_z.jpg)
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
![Image](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sedae8ltYCY/WTaT-2UOQyI/AAAAAAAAGEc/P-FccfEyhdou10uVH6r6xKK5iJuS-8ATACLcB/s1600/not-like-that%2521-small.jpg)
or one of these:
![Image](https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5604/29738501654_b927020509_z.jpg)
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
- mountainbaker
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Re: TDR 2017
+1Bearbonesnorm wrote:...you can't enter something then mumble when the 'rules' don't suit your situation or circumstance.
Last edited by mountainbaker on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: TDR 2017
Yes - the DQ should be self-served. That's the gentleman's agreement. Either way, hats off to 'em for touring to the end.
That pic of Stu is class...definetly a "my precious" kinda look.
Greetz
S.
That pic of Stu is class...definetly a "my precious" kinda look.
Greetz
S.
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
No gentlemen here, we're Laaayyyydeezzzz:Scattamah wrote:That's the gentleman's agreement.
![Image](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/1200x675/p01ghfpr.jpg)
Sorry, couldn't resist
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
- thenorthwind
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Re: TDR 2017
Really don't see what the fuss is about. Getting a lift was stupid, thinking it was within the rules was stupid, but they're not denying it or refusing to accept it (and accepting it must be hard).
Are people actually getting upset that she didn't fess up to a mistake she didn't know she'd made?
Are people actually getting upset that she didn't fess up to a mistake she didn't know she'd made?
- Cheeky Monkey
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Re: TDR 2017
Upset? Not me
Killing time on the internet idly discussing random sub standard and avoiding work - absolutely![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
![Very Happy :grin:](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
Killing time on the internet idly discussing random sub standard and avoiding work - absolutely
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
Re: TDR 2017
On a ferry, excuse spulling mistooks.
Self relegation is part of the ethos of these races. As is knowing the route, the rules and how they are applied. It has always been about honesty and openness within the village.
The TDR is the only race to have a lift assisting clause in it. If you're going to use it, you need to know its limits. And stick within them. Having taken a lift for mechanical assistance last year I had opted not to until Dan and Jackie persuaded me to talk to Scott and Matt. I still felt it was breaking my own personal rules, but it was within the TDR rule set, it is allowed - only for mechanical and medical reasons. It's quite simple.
Any other event, I'd have scratched, turned off my SPOT to trackleaders, fixed my bike then rode on my own away from anyone actually racing. Touring, but not finishing. Nothing would have changed that.
Simple enough.
Again, I hope they enjoy their ride and don't promote it in a manner akin to Guy last year as a "finish" of the TDR - it's not. You don't claim a 5km running PB on a 4.5km course. Nor should it be accepted as a glorious failure like the Fall of the Light Brigade. It's fuel for them to go back and actually race the route, full gas, solo. I hope they do. They certainly have the talent. I'd love to see what would happen if they'd actually race each other rather than tour.
I've spent a lot of time this week talking back and forth with Matt about this, and a few other issues. Outside assistance is becoming more of a problem in our digital age and as people become financially invested in our racing scene.
When an underground ride becomes a tick point for publicity rather than pursuing the event itself it loses some of its beauty. I do wonder how much longer until Matt and Scott wash their hands of the TD and move on out of frustration.
It will be a sad day when they do.
Self relegation is part of the ethos of these races. As is knowing the route, the rules and how they are applied. It has always been about honesty and openness within the village.
The TDR is the only race to have a lift assisting clause in it. If you're going to use it, you need to know its limits. And stick within them. Having taken a lift for mechanical assistance last year I had opted not to until Dan and Jackie persuaded me to talk to Scott and Matt. I still felt it was breaking my own personal rules, but it was within the TDR rule set, it is allowed - only for mechanical and medical reasons. It's quite simple.
Any other event, I'd have scratched, turned off my SPOT to trackleaders, fixed my bike then rode on my own away from anyone actually racing. Touring, but not finishing. Nothing would have changed that.
Simple enough.
Again, I hope they enjoy their ride and don't promote it in a manner akin to Guy last year as a "finish" of the TDR - it's not. You don't claim a 5km running PB on a 4.5km course. Nor should it be accepted as a glorious failure like the Fall of the Light Brigade. It's fuel for them to go back and actually race the route, full gas, solo. I hope they do. They certainly have the talent. I'd love to see what would happen if they'd actually race each other rather than tour.
I've spent a lot of time this week talking back and forth with Matt about this, and a few other issues. Outside assistance is becoming more of a problem in our digital age and as people become financially invested in our racing scene.
When an underground ride becomes a tick point for publicity rather than pursuing the event itself it loses some of its beauty. I do wonder how much longer until Matt and Scott wash their hands of the TD and move on out of frustration.
It will be a sad day when they do.
![Image](https://veloviewer.com/SigImage/21149/2/6/M/p/bjlniozzzz.png)
- whitestone
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Re: TDR 2017
+1 to that Greg.
As someone who is, at different times, both participant and moderator (Judge and Jury is a bit strong!) I'm aware of the levels of honesty around. As moderator I've seen both ends of the spectrum from someone who blatantly lied about their efforts, even when presented with evidence to the contrary, to someone who admitted to a slight transgression and therefore disqualified (self relegated) themselves.
Human nature I suppose. The problems start when those without adequate experience hear about such events and add them to their "bucket list". Explaining to someone that a 10K run round Hyde Park isn't sufficient preparation for a day in the fells is an exercise in frustration.
It's the distinction between I rode on the TDR and I did the TDR, they aren't quite the same thing.
As someone who is, at different times, both participant and moderator (Judge and Jury is a bit strong!) I'm aware of the levels of honesty around. As moderator I've seen both ends of the spectrum from someone who blatantly lied about their efforts, even when presented with evidence to the contrary, to someone who admitted to a slight transgression and therefore disqualified (self relegated) themselves.
Human nature I suppose. The problems start when those without adequate experience hear about such events and add them to their "bucket list". Explaining to someone that a 10K run round Hyde Park isn't sufficient preparation for a day in the fells is an exercise in frustration.
It's the distinction between I rode on the TDR and I did the TDR, they aren't quite the same thing.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
- thenorthwind
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Re: TDR 2017
I see where you're coming from Greg, and I can't argue with any of it.
Perhaps the question is whether this is the start of the long slow decline of morals in bikepack racing, or just a minor blip. Only time will tell really. I tend to try and see it as the latter, but you seem to see it as the former, and you have much greater insight into this world than me as a casual observer.
Perhaps the question is whether this is the start of the long slow decline of morals in bikepack racing, or just a minor blip. Only time will tell really. I tend to try and see it as the latter, but you seem to see it as the former, and you have much greater insight into this world than me as a casual observer.
Re: TDR 2017
While nodding in agreement generally, perhaps it's inevitable - not sure you can have 'the longest dirt race' with no entry fees or limits and very little regulation then becoming the most famoust bikepacking race (? if it is, not sure) while staying true to it's origins forever. If it should get too big -or it did a while ago and is now on limited time*- I guess what happens is dozen or so guys will line up in Banff or at the border at Roosville one year, with phones in bags and no trackers and no-one will know how the race went but them.When an underground ride becomes a tick point for publicity rather than pursuing the event itself it loses some of its beauty. I do wonder how much longer until Matt and Scott wash their hands of the TD and move on out of frustration.
It will be a sad day when they do.
*I don't think it is, I thought that may be the case a while back but 120, 150 or 200 riders disperse pretty fast. What creates the sense of 'too big' may be the amount of noise surrounding it online, personally I'm not sure it's anywhere near that. The TCR has a higher volume of riders and social media content already and that's only 4 or 5 years old.
Re: TDR 2017
Would that then be Great Divide Mountain Bike Route?whitestone wrote: It's the distinction between I rode on the TDR and I did the TDR, they aren't quite the same thing.
- fatbikephil
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Re: TDR 2017
I guessing Rickie must have realised she was a DQ when she was told she's missed a bit (and therefore received external assistance) so accepting the lift back to do the right bit wasn't going to change that. Knowing Rickie she won't try to claim anything other than what she has done.
In terms of the possible decline of Bikepacking and the pi** taking with the rules - the only person your kidding is yourself.
In terms of the possible decline of Bikepacking and the pi** taking with the rules - the only person your kidding is yourself.