Blackburn Rangers - HTR

[GregMay]

Looking like Blackburn are expanding their Ranger "program" (marketing) to include the Highland Trail.

https://www.blackburndesign.com/out-there/#highland

[AlanG]

News to me! They emailed me about this back in October and I politely declined as I want to keep HT550 free of any commercial sponsorship. I never heard from them again.

[GregMay]

I had a suspicion you'd not be involved :)

Also, noting that they are not using the HTR550 name in media...so far.

[ianfitz]

What does it mean? Who are the HTR Rangers?

Will they be setting up drinks stations and woodfired pizza ovens at key points of the route.

I must admit that when I saw the title I thought it was something to do with football!

[wriggles]

Rode the GDMBR through Montana with two Blackburn rangers for a couple of weeks this summer. Katie and Laura were brilliant fun to ride with.

[Ian]

Seeing as the "learn more" link in that article is broken ( ), I think the "ranger" program is free kit for those committing to do certain routes this year, and then blog / social media about it. Blackburn pick the route they want to see their kit used on. They've picked the Highland Trail this year, amongst others, presumably as a touring route rather than group start or ITT.

[GregMay]

What does it mean? Who are the HTR Rangers?

3rd year running now. Blackburn product development effectively. Then used as a social media/ meet up based product show.

[GregMay]

I think the "ranger" program is free kit for those committing to do certain routes this year,

Kinda free... you do have to get yourself to the USA to go to the initial media meetup and product briefings.

[wriggles]

Yep kit provided. Niner bikes, Blackburn luggage and Big Agnes kit. Lots of feedback given on the Blackburn luggage

[benp1]

Didn't realise you get a bike too. It's a good idea on all front really - both the rider and the company benefits. Shame you have to get yourself to the US though (i.e. fund it yourself)

[jameso]

Are they encouraging people to ride the HTR550 route for marketing purposes but not crediting the route for what it is or its origins, or not discussing this with the route organiser? An organiser and planner of a route like that has some (at least moral, if not legal) IP type rights that should be respected even if the route isn't a commercial venture. If someone says they'd rather that route wasn't used in this way then that should be respected. "Map your own route" : )

They're publicising the Camino Santiago as a route also - it's a pilgrim walkers route and after we rode it in low-season it's not something I'd actively promote at that level, simply out of respect for the walkers on the route. Brands need to tread/ride carefully when promoting places that have pressure on space or use. (I'm saying this while being aware of and amused by the very true comment on the bothy book thread about raging against CAMRA Good Pub Guides .. )

[RobMac]

Rode the GDMBR through Montana with two Blackburn rangers for a couple of weeks this summer. Katie and Laura were brilliant fun to ride with.

I'll bet it was

[whitestone]

News to me! They emailed me about this back in October and I politely declined as I want to keep HT550 free of any commercial sponsorship. I never heard from them again.

We have the same problem with the Bob Graham Round (not from Blackburn I might add): requests to sponsor; produce associated goods; publicise or add to "100 runs to do before you die" books. All get declined (done by another committee member who's a lawyer so better and more politely worded than I might manage) along with a reasoning why such enterprises don't fit with the ethos of the round.

Sadly I don't think this will be the last such request you'll get as ever more people look to using other's free efforts for their commercial activities.

[GregMay]

Yep, agree with Whitestone on this. Some things don't really need more publicity.

[ScotRoutes]

Yep, agree with Whitestone on this. Some things don't really need more publicity.

Shame someone was recently promoting a book on it....


This was always likely to happen. On the up side, at least they're suggesting that riders might want to do it at a more relaxed pace. Not only will they get to see a bit more of the countryside but they might spend a few more pennies in local shops, B&Bs etc.

[GregMay]

Yep, agree with Whitestone on this. Some things don't really need more publicity.

Shame someone was recently promoting a book on it....

Sure. But a slightly different ability to reach a significant volume of people in the manner it was funded. Unlike a global cycling brand, a few riders juggling words and photos into a journal is not quite the same as a dedicated PR team. FWIW, I was the first person to have something published on the HTR back in the inaugural year - something which I asked Alan could we do - and then ran the copy by him before it was published. It also ran in a restricted access format. So I'm as guilty as anyone. But, that was done to inspire, not to sell something. I'm not even sure I got paid for it.

With more books on the BGR, Himalayas climbing, Antarctic expeditions has come increased interest in droves over the years, but only to a point. Interest and dreams are less than what people are actually willing to follow through with. Not saying that increased publicity on these things is good or bad (being a person who has been paid repeatedly to write copy about races, expeditions etc. over the past 15 years) but piggy backing off something for medias sake alone, rather than as a source of inspiration. Well, for me, it's less inspiring really. But for some people, it's their job. In this case, a chance for someone to have an adventure with free (ish) kit.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see if people opt to step up for the HTR as an nice tour and how it treats them.

[metalheart]

Are they not advertising for 4 rangers?

Just how much damage can they do (assuming all of them turn up)?

What more damage than the recent bikepacking.com article (which has kind of inspired me...). Which also pushed a 'take a fortnight' stance. When I say my objective for this year is to ride 550 miles in Scotland more or less unsupported people look at me like I'm mad (which, to be fair, is generally how they at at me.... )

The actual event itself is different (granted).

[Chew]

The issue is around a commercial organisation using content that wasnt approved, for their own gain.
Traffic isnt really an issue. Its about respect and rule #1.

I can imagine what may have been said on the phone today though......


Personally i dont think it lends itself to being a touring route. Far too much hike-a-bike.

[metalheart]

I'm prepared to be shot down in flames, I can't really see this having much penetration in the bog bad world. When was the last time you even saw any Blackburn promo stuff (Gregs link is the only time for me).

Sounds like as they approached Alan (and I think his non-commercial stance is admirable) they wanted to the 'right thing'. Once a route is out there it kinda has a life of it's own, no?

Looking at the ranger thing it looks like a good gig. A means to an end if you were so inclined, doubt they'd be interested in a 50+ fat aal beardie anti-social mannie like...., about as much chance as getting a entry!

And as Colin pointed out, the HT550 journal I'd expect to have more of an impact (in the UK at least). And me posting about it up on STW, was I not pimping it too?

Agreed it would have been nicer (and respectfu)l if they'd checked with Alan first

[jameso]

Once a route is out there it kinda has a life of it's own, no?

Yes, but as Chew says a brand should respect the aims of the organiser. A route like this (imo) has some sort of moral intellectual property like anything else created by time, subject interest and problem solving. It's open terrain and the route is given freely, it's out there now yes, but the way it's linked up originally gives it value, it gains a life of it's own from having value as a route and 'HTR550' or similar terms have brand value because of that - doesn't mean a brand can help themselves to it for commercial promotion though. Ask, then respect the answer given. There's a grey area though, loads of brands have a shot of a rider on a route in a catalogue w/o the route or event planner's knowledge. That's low-level and seems ok, just normal image sharing I guess. It's when the event becomes a core part of a launch or a promotion that it's getting into piggy-backing.

Agreed it would have been nicer (and respectfu)l if they'd checked with Alan first

Sounds like they didn't get the answer they wanted and went ahead anyway?

[metalheart]

Sounds like they didn't get the answer they wanted and went ahead anyway?

I thought from Alan's response they were talking about event sponsorship? I'd be interested in clarification/elaboration from the horses mouth...?

Definitely a grey area!

Being a novice, you guys can come across as being a bit elitist. Which I get. I don't half feel I must be a disappointment to you

Appreciate your response (jameso).

[jameso]

Sorry, I don't mean to speculate and might have misunderstood.

Aside from the Rangers/HTR point, I do think there's going to be some disagreement somewhere along the line with brand promotions using non-profit events. I'm not sure you can keep control over associated uses of a free or 'underground' event w/o resorting to (uncharacteristic?) formal IP enforcement, which means it comes down to hoping people act with respect. I was asked about something like this for the TNR this summer and it got us thinking, wasn't expecting it to come up tbh. There's some interesting reading on the TCR site about all that.

I hope I'm not sounding elitist in all this.. many will appreciate the ethics and approach of non-commercial events and I find it interesting how they evolve or cope with increased interest, or how recent events have become quite profitable for some (good on them too). Just geeking out on brands and IP etc.

[whitestone]

I wouldn't see it as elitist more an understanding of the potential problems that sponsorship, etc. can bring. What are the sponsors actually sponsoring? A route? The group start? What do they get for their money? Does everyone have to use their kit? What if someone wears/uses something else? There's no, moral, way that a sponsor could say "Have a go at our route, the HT550" as it isn't theirs.

There are sponsored athletes and there's no way that you can discriminate between those riders saying "I used X, it was great" and a non-sponsored rider saying the same. Similarly there's no way of stopping a firm saying "Joe Bloggs used our kit on his way to victory in ...". In this case though as James states, the route has risen due to the efforts of Alan and the bikepacking community not a commercial concern.

[metalheart]

Again I appreciate your response, thank you.

I guess anybody on the 'outside' looking in sees a bit of 'elitism', and I really don't mean you any disrespect. I just have a different perspective I guess. If I had more 'invested' in it I guess I'd see different too.

Maybe I should just shut up, at least until I've actually ridden the route...

[Ian]

Some very good points from Jameso.

As an example outside of our sport, consider the music or software industry. Someone writes a piece of music or code and publishes it on an open source basis.

A commercial company comes along and takes said piece of music or code and rolls it into a larger project (a film, for example), or a bigger piece of software. No credit, monetary or otherwise, is given to the originator of the piece.

It's not elitist for the originator to feel somewhat peeved, especially - as appears to be the case here - if they were asked first but declined to give permission.

Perhaps Alan should look into some Creative Commons licencing to publish on the website, which state upfront limitations on commercial usage.