Saving weight (and money?)

[Richard G]

I pretty much go without the cooking gear full stop these days unless I know I'm absolutely going to be in the middle of no-where. I'd much rather grab a sandwich than mess around with the cooking aspect of things.

Mat issue is an interesting one for me, as it seems I'm VERY sensitive to the cold outside my bag. I'd be quite happy to carry my winter mat all year round as I move around a massive amount in my sleep and it's hard to keep most mats warm.

I really want to try a quilt... mostly because I think it's going to work out much better for sleeping on my face than a sleeping bag does. Sort of thing I'd rather hire than splash out a huge amount of money on though.

[whitestone]

Definitely valid points - #1 is especially relevant for the smaller rider as it follows they have less room on their bike.

#2 is something I've carried over from my Alpine climbing days - when you are on the go for a long day and it's you that's actually doing the load bearing then you look at multi-use items. The lightest item is the one you don't need and so don't take with you. An example: I'd put sections of Karrimat in the sleeve in the back of my rucksack. These provided padding when carrying the sack but they were my sleep mat on any bivy. Total weight about 100g but sod all space taken up.

Ray - I've not done a comparison between different meths stoves but I don't notice a huge difference in fuel consumption between my pop can stove and Cath's 8g BB stove. There may well be, I'm sure there's some geek somewhere who has done it

The original post was a set of examples of what might be done along with the possible cost/savings rather than saying these are what you should do. I chose those items as they tend to be the biggest/heaviest so have the potential for the biggest weight saving - no point in sawing your toothbrush in half if your summer sleeping bag weighs 2kg! Thinking about things can come up with surprising answers but they have to work for you.

[Asposium]

A price-performance-weight consideration I found particularly interesting was dynamo hub.

Given their seemingly popularity amongst many long distance bikepackers (and tourers) thought there must be something worth considering.

However, when looking at the cost (fairly high, plus a wheel build), their performance (fairly low at 3W max) and weight (so so compared with a battery pack) I just didn’t see the point.

Do appreciate a flat pack is dead weight, but seemingly so are dynamo hubs at low speed, and one still (ideally) requires a cache battery.

Solar seems just as pointless

[BigdummySteve]

Dyno hubs and lights are a must for me, on typical one or two day trips you can get away with a battery I use a big iPhone instead of a garmin and finished the cafe racer with my battery 3/4 full and phone in 97% charge. We also rode with lights for some time, one of the things I like about dyno’s is that you always have lights, true the charging at typical off-road speeds is not great but over a longer trip it helps. On trips like lejog/ jogle it is actually a great cost saver, you can wild camp all the way and not book b&b’s just to charge kit.

[windjammer]

been waiting for a thread like this for ages,thanks for your time whitestone.
my bike weighed 73lbs at the welsh ride thing but i still kept up with my group and was one of the three finishers in that group who got back,done some serious thinking about bikepacking and come to the conclusion that its not all about what you take but what you leave behind,came across chew in haffren forest and he only had a dry bag fixed to the bars and a wingnut pack that is so light its unbelievable.
how do you get to that stage is there a course you can go on or is anyone on here willing to give up a day/night to help fellow bikepackers i would happily exchange beer tokens for knowledge and advice,or is it the case of just going out there with the bare minimum and seeing if you can survive the night.

i been weighing every thing when i got back from the cafe racer,my revelate terrapin and sweet roll weigh 1kg,but a polybag just strapped to the bars weighs 20 grams and cost 5p
just bought another sleeping pad and saved 200grams and reduced the pack size,but ive spent £250 on sleeping pads over the time of been in the outdoors so spending £50 quid on beer tokens would save money and heartache in the long run

you only know if a item of equipment is any good or suitable after you have used it but then its to late to get a refund and have to sell it on as second hand

if you have saved up hard earned cash you want to know what your buying is going to work for you,i researched the jones plus and spoke to the man himself cost me £50 phone call but it was worth it,

[Alpinum]

Saving serious weight on the bike usually means serious money Plus the bike has to actually cope with what you want to do.

Interesting concept considering the purpose of your thread to save weight and money. Consider the money savings if everyone was still riding around on their old 26" wheeled bikes - lighter wheels, stonger wheels, lighter tyres and eminently fit for purpose - and not a single penny spent on keeping up with wheelsize trends - 29", 650, boost, plus, fat...

26" Hardtails - ideal for bikepacking, lighter with stronger wheels than their modern big cousins! Think of the weight and money you could have saved!!

Depending on where/what you ride your better off with big wheels. Better off meaning more efficient, faster.
And isn't this weight saving about being more efficient?

I find the larger, heavier wheels a good example how some thing heavier not automatically makes you slower.

Something that helps me a lot to save weight is imagination. Imagine the possibilities you could face on an up coming trip. Sleeping on snow or grass, available options for sheltered bivy spot etc. Use all your experience to adjust all your gear. If you don't have the experience go out more... it takes time but with it comes automatically

[whitestone]

Dynamo vs battery is an interesting one. I've both on different bikes. I did the HT550 with a battery, I'd worked out what I needed and I could get by with the battery - my dynamo wouldn't fit those forks so I'd have needed to get one built up and there was all the full about the SP 15mm dynamos at the time. For routes like the TDR where you have a higher average speed then the dynamo would be the better option.

Steve - one thing about better gear is that it holds its resale value better than the cheap stuff.

I always made the point on climbing forums that the lightest kit was that left back at home or in the car, you don't have to take everything you own. Knowing what you can do with lesser amounts is always going to be lighter, less bulky. TLS, etc.

[Asposium]

.....you don't have to take everything you own. Knowing what you can do with lesser amounts is always going to be lighter, less bulky. TLS, etc.

coming to bikepacking found it helpful being a multi-day wild camper.
one has a different take on what to take when carrying stuff on one's back for a week.

bikepacking presented its own challenges as the bags aren't as large internally; for example, limited space for a large pan.
though, could have got away without a stove for the Tuscany trail, so for Le Jog in May probably won't take a stove .....think supermarket racer.
when stopping at cafes will ask to charge the battery packs, have a VERY fast charger.
hmm, riding North, there's a ponder for taking a solar panel.

[benp1]

Matt, one thing to bear in mind is that you're a big lad like me. It means all our kit is bigger - long sleeping bag/quilt, long mat, long bivy etc

It's a combination of more weight and more pack size. It's not a game changer, but it does make a small difference

Simplest thing would be to set out your detailed pack list with EVERYTHING weighed, and then post up on here

[Bearbonesnorm]

is there a course you can go on or is anyone on here willing to give up a day/night to help fellow bikepackers

"Tramp camp' was on the cards a few years ago Matt and was intended to do exactly what you described but it never came off due to lack of interest. Maybe time for a rethink?

you don't have to take everything you own.

Uhm, some people do seem to feel that they should take every item they've ever bought because it's bikepacking gear and they're going bikepacking. Another issue is buying lots of luggage then looking for things to put in it.

[ScotRoutes]

Here's an introductory course

https://mtbguiding.co.uk/bike-packing-weekends/

[whitestone]

Another issue is buying lots of luggage then looking for things to put in it.

There's a variation on that: having too (required) much kit for 2 bags but 3 bags is too much room so you look for something light and bulky to fill it out Having a variety of bags in different sizes does help One reason why I prefer harness and bag to the all-in-one style.

Windjammer - the easiest and cheapest way to enlightenment is to make a list of everything you take on a trip. When you get back cross off all those items you actually used (ignore First Aid Kit, medical supplies if you need those and bike spares/tools), what's left was basically unnecessary weight/bulk. Do this for a few trips and you'll get a good idea of what you are taking along "just in case". You have to apply a bit of common sense to this - I wouldn't head out at this time of year without a decent waterproof so even if I didn't use it's not something I'd mark as unnecessary. Similarly in summer, sun cream and midge repellent would be in order.

If you are in a pair or group then share common kit between you, no need for both of you to take a tyre pump and a shock pump each for example.

Edit: Tramp camp - wasn't the Adventure weekend thing in Ambleside last year meant to be something along those lines?

[restlessshawn]

Since I am never racing I abandoned the spreadsheet approach some time back and just decided to be sensible!

I pack pretty light I think. I've got some light stuff and some that's just ok that I stick with because it just works for me.

I really should get a lighter summer sleeping bag rather than lugging a 1500g 3 season bag everywhere...but it's a comfy bag and has saved me a few times when it's turned colder than I thought. Actually getting some sleep and being able to cook (rehydrate) something decent to eat is of more benefit to me than a little weight saved.

Tried a quilt, did not get on with it at all

Another issue is buying lots of luggage then looking for things to put in it.

I'm avoiding stem cells, top tube bags and fork mounted bags for this very reason

[Asposium]

I'm avoiding stem cells, top tube bags and fork mounted bags for this very reason

Top tube bag does seem a very handy location in which to store ride cookies and flapjack

[restlessshawn]

I'm avoiding stem cells, top tube bags and fork mounted bags for this very reason

Top tube bag does seem a very handy location in which to store ride cookies and flapjack

I keep a few bars at the front of my tangle bag so can unzip and grab on the go

did consider the wildcat cheetah for tube and tools just to keep them together...is there still a sale on

[Bearbonesnorm]

Tramp camp - wasn't the Adventure weekend thing in Ambleside last year meant to be something along those lines?

Yes and to a degree it was. Trouble is, the info on hand is somewhat conflicting ... on one hand I'm preaching TLS and on the other, you've got mug danglers with axes and cast iron pans.

[whitestone]

Since I am never racing I abandoned the spreadsheet approach some time back and just decided to be sensible!

It's just a means of highlighting what is taking up space and if you do intend to save weight where to start.

I pack pretty light I think. I've got some light stuff and some that's just ok that I stick with because it just works for me.

I really should get a lighter summer sleeping bag rather than lugging a 1500g 3 season bag everywhere...but it's a comfy bag and has saved me a few times when it's turned colder than I thought. Actually getting some sleep and being able to cook (rehydrate) something decent to eat is of more benefit to me than a little weight saved.

1500g for a sleeping bag is heavy but it is one area where getting something very light does cost money. Against that if you get a good bit of kit it lasts longer and you use it more so the per-use cost does tend to be reasonable after a year or two. Does sting the wallet at first though

There's a big difference between ITT events and general touring with regards sleep/rest and cooking. At last weekend's winter event we were at our bivy spot for longer than we were riding over the two days! There was no need to rush so we just took our time. On ITTs I just need to get some recovery so what I take isn't going to result in a 5 star hotel bedroom experience. Ideally the setup "fails" at about the same time as I'd want to get up and going.

Tried a quilt, did not get on with it at all

No problem with that. At least you tried one and didn't just dismiss it.

Another issue is buying lots of luggage then looking for things to put in it.

I'm avoiding stem cells, top tube bags and fork mounted bags for this very reason

Those type of bags are ideal for the situation I mentioned where you've just too much kit for the rest of your bags but adding another "big" bag is too much.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Backpackers talk about the big three items: shelter; sleeping bag; rucksack. On the bike we tend not to have rucksacks so the next biggest item is probably a sleeping pad.

I wonder whether this is no longer the case and 'electronic gadgets' and associated hardware have taken over from one of those three?

[whitestone]

Backpackers talk about the big three items: shelter; sleeping bag; rucksack. On the bike we tend not to have rucksacks so the next biggest item is probably a sleeping pad.

I wonder whether this is no longer the case and 'electronic gadgets' and associated hardware have taken over from one of those three?

Quite possible Stu. I've usually got: Garmin Oregon, iPhone, compact camera, Exposure Joystick, Powerbank battery plus leads to connect items to battery. There may be a SPOT as well. Given the quality of John Climber's shots taken on a phone I probably could ditch the camera.

[techno]

Backpackers talk about the big three items: shelter; sleeping bag; rucksack. On the bike we tend not to have rucksacks so the next biggest item is probably a sleeping pad.

I wonder whether this is no longer the case and 'electronic gadgets' and associated hardware have taken over from one of those three?

Surely we'd substitute "luggage" for backpack?
Electronics will add up to a substantial lump for some, but not others.

[restlessshawn]

1500g for a sleeping bag is heavy

It's actually not terrible for a 3 season synthetic(no down thanks) bag (snugpak hawk). I'd probably have to spend £150 to save 200g...unless someone has a great suggestion

Those type of bags are ideal for the situation I mentioned where you've just too much kit for the rest of your bags but adding another "big" bag is too much

that's a fair point

[ScotRoutes]

FWIW I like having a number of small bags. It keeps things organised, easy to find and separate. A bag with my spare tube, tools etc is normally attached to the bike permanently. Easy access to a camera - one-handed, while riding - is another desire.

[Asposium]

I wonder whether this is no longer the case and 'electronic gadgets' and associated hardware have taken over from one of those three?

Gadgets are my downfall.

Mobile phones 174g each (2off iPhone X), plus cable
Garmin inReach 213g, plus cable 8g, plus bar mount
Garmin Montana 610 GPS 292g, plus spare batteries 41g each, plus charger 38g, plus cable 37g, plus bar mount
Canon G7 mk2 compact camera, 316g (same cable as inReach)
Anker USB battery packs 494g (26,800mAh) and/or 321g each (13,400mAh) {Always carry two packs}
Anker 4-port fast charger 127g, plus plug adapter 17g each {UK, Euro, USA etc}

This is the kit for a multi-day trip, such as Iceland last year, or Le Jog in May
I have reduced.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Mobile phones, plus cable
Garmin inReach, plus cable
Garmin GPS, plus spare batteries, plus charger, plus cable
Canon compact camera, (same cable as inReach)
Battery packs (one plus spare)
Mains charger (if on a long "tour")

Genuinely interested to know what that lot weighs. Wouldn't be surprised if it were more than my shelter or sleeping 'set-up'.

[whitestone]

Here's a few setups of my Solaris.

Last year's YD200, I didn't intend to stop to bivy. Two stem cells for snacks, Beerbabe downtube bag for tools and spares. Alpkit top tube bag for things like FA kit, glasses, phone.



In Northumberland between Xmas and New Year. Winter bivy kit in handlebar bag, two stem cells for snacks, Alpkit top tube bag as before. Clothing in seat pack. Also had a small rucksack with food, cooking stuff and tools. Last weekend's winter ride was basically the same as this.



Highland Trail. Summer bivy kit in handlebar bag (this was tarp, bivy bag, quilt and sleeping mat), Stem cells and top tube bag as before. Spare clothing in seat pack. Tools, spares in downtube bag. No rucksack.



Trans Cambrian Trail last March. Same as for Highland Trail but I hadn't got the downtube bag at that point so tools (I might have forgotten the pump!) went in the top tube bag and I'd also got the Lioness bag on the front of the handlebar bag for camera and extra goodies.



So there's quite a bit of variation in what I'll take depending on distance, whether I intend to bivy, time of year, weather. Mostly I'll get it "rightish", occasionally I mess up.