New route, An Turas Mor

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Justchris
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Justchris »

I have mixed views on new 'published' routes. I think this one is ok. Yeah it uses existing trails, yeah it's not the longest but says it is. But it has a decent start and end point, it's through some nice countryside and the known trails means it's going to be half decent. It's also heading to the cape, and I haven't been before.

I have a question though. If this proves to be a good 'race', with a strong field, and is reasonably popular, should it be on selfsuported.net?

Just asking...i have no affiliation with this route.
AlasdairMc
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by AlasdairMc »

The site is confusing - what is the ride trying to be? From the planning section:
should include a spare tyre as these trails are very rough.
Also, to answer Chris’s question
Booking well ahead of Hotels, Bunkhouses and even places to eat, is highly recommended.
You won’t get on selfsupported as prebooking anything ahead of the race is against the rules.

It does still seem an interesting route though
stevew
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by stevew »

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Yes & No; 'that' race, isn't a race. It just looks a lot like one...!
Really, it's called the Highland Trail Race.
Hi. Apologies, just by way of note though, the 'R' word isn't used on the Highland Trail website or in communications. HT550, or just Highland Trail. (Though I note it appears once on the webpage in Colorado Trail Race)

It's doesn't crop up on Cairngorms Loop, Self-supported, Lakeland 200 or Pennine Bridleway either. The effort of the time was to try and influence the language around the style of riding to be more about the individual - route, self-supported, and time-trial.

(And what Alasdair said)
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Apologies Steve (and Craig). I knew that no other route had 'that word' associated to it but for some reason thought the HT did.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by ScotRoutes »

I always assumed that the Highland Trail was the route and the Race was the annual group-start.

As I posted above, it's referred to as the HTR on bikepacking.net

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra- ... rail-race/

In fact, it's even in the Ultra-Racing section.
stevew
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by stevew »

Sorry for going off topic, but maybe history is relevant in discussing An Turas Mor, and possible futures. The development of the websites and routes (HT550, CL, SSUK, PBW, LL200, circa 2012) was organic rather than planned to an ultimate vision. At the time these terms were discussed at length, and the effort was to try and exert some influence through the use of terminology, recognising nothing can be controlled, but discourse can be a powerful influence.

I had experience of several US multi-day events, but this style of riding was new to the UK; I had no idea about liability as a group depart facilitator (Cairngorms Loop), or if a community could develop and internalise the values attributed to the self-supported philosophy (credit to Mike Curiak (GDR) for making that philosophy explicit, and Stuart for planting the UK seed, and supporting the contribution of others).

So in conceiving, communicating, and trying to organically grow self-supported events in the UK, through others stepping up, an attempt was made to avoid the 'R' word. Sure, it gets used from time to time, we all know the score, I wouldn't say that legitimises it though. Myself, I still try and stick to those original principles and language of Self-support and ITT, not dilute it; maybe not through concern for personal liability as a route director anymore, but more for simplicity, keeping a low profile, attempting to embed the values in a community of ultimate responsibility being with the individual, not an 'organiser' (another word I avoid since it has meaning of a higher power and responsibility than yourself).

It's interesting to hear of dual meanings in route and r**e. We all make sense and bring meaning to things in different ways according to our development history. Thanks, guys. I'll go back to my cave now.
Last edited by stevew on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alpinum
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Alpinum »

stevew wrote:
Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Yes & No; 'that' race, isn't a race. It just looks a lot like one...!
Really, it's called the Highland Trail Race.
Hi. Apologies, just by way of note though, the 'R' word isn't used on the Highland Trail website or in communications. HT550, or just Highland Trail. (Though I note it appears once on the webpage in Colorado Trail Race)

It's doesn't crop up on Cairngorms Loop, Self-supported, Lakeland 200 or Pennine Bridleway either. The effort of the time was to try and influence the language around the style of riding to be more about the individual - route, self-supported, and time-trial.

(And what Alasdair said)
Well, Alan wasn't so sure from the beginning as it seems...

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra- ... rail-race/
:wink:
ianfitz
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by ianfitz »

stevew wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but maybe history is relevant in discussing An Turas Mor, and possible futures. The development of the websites and routes (HT550, CL, SSUK, PBW, LL200, circa 2012) was organic rather than planned to an ultimate vision. At the time these terms were discussed at length, and the effort was to try and exert some influence through the use of terminology, recognising nothing can be controlled, but discourse can be a powerful influence.

I had experience of several US multi-day events, but this style of riding was new to the UK; I had no idea about liability as a group depart facilitator (Cairngorms Loop), or if a community could develop and internalise the values attributed to the self-supported philosophy (credit to Mike Curiak (GDR) for making that philosophy explicit, and Stuart for planting the UK seed, and supporting the contribution of others).

So in conceiving, communicating, and trying to organically grow self-supported events in the UK, through others stepping up, an attempt was made to avoid the 'R' word. Sure, it gets used from time to time, we all know the score, I wouldn't say that legitimises it though. Myself, I still try and stick to those original principles and language of Self-support and ITT, not dilute it; maybe not through concern for personal liability as a route director anymore, but more for simplicity, keeping a low profile, attempting to embed the values of ultimate responsibility being with the individual, not an 'organiser' (another word I avoid since it has meaning of a higher power and responsibility that yourself), in a community.

It's interesting to hear of dual meanings in route and r**e. We all make sense and bring meaning to things in different ways according to our development history. Thanks, guys. I'll go back to my cave now.
Not off topic at all Steve. Thanks for sharing that, I’d image that many won’t know about the ‘history’ of our chosen interest.

Your post clearly demonstrates a level of thoughtfulness and consideration which appears lacking in a number of more recent events and routes that have appeared more recently.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Your post clearly demonstrates a level of thoughtfulness and consideration which appears lacking in a number of more recent events and routes that have appeared more recently.
Seconded.
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Trail-rat
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Trail-rat »

Absolutely, it doesn't take much to be a decent human being :)

I wonder what the "race" is limited to numbers wise ?
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Moder-dye »

Anyone requested and got the GPX yet? I just had an email that omcc are on holiday until 27th and will get a response then.
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GregMay
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by GregMay »

Good words Steve.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by ScotRoutes »

Moder-dye wrote:Anyone requested and got the GPX yet? I just had an email that omcc are on holiday until 27th and will get a response then.
Sit down with the maps and you'll soon have it. Let's face it - in most places there are few options.
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by AlasdairMc »

Moder-dye wrote:Anyone requested and got the GPX yet? I just had an email that omcc are on holiday until 27th and will get a response then.
Is OMCC a one man band then, albeit one that refers to themselves as “we” or in the third person?
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Moder-dye »

ScotRoutes wrote:
Moder-dye wrote:Anyone requested and got the GPX yet? I just had an email that omcc are on holiday until 27th and will get a response then.
Sit down with the maps and you'll soon have it. Let's face it - in most places there are few options.
Yeh, I know, but I was interestd to see the actual route they are promoting. But AlasdairMC says I'm not sure who they/he/she is/are.
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whitestone
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by whitestone »

Not sure of the southern bit but the section from Bridge of Balgie in Glen Lyon as far as the head of Glen Golly above Strath Dionard it follows the HT550 route with the exception of a short bit of road from Tomich to just after Cannich. The section from Fort Augustus to Cannich is actually part of the return route of the HT550, the old drove road is now upgraded to a wind turbine road.
I'm not sure who they/he/she is/are.
It's Reg. He's a splinter faction from the Cyclist Mundo Obscura Club. :wink:
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RIP
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by RIP »

Damn. My cover is blown... and I was trying SO hard...
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by fatbikephil »

whitestone wrote:Not sure of the southern bit but the section from Bridge of Balgie in Glen Lyon as far as the head of Glen Golly above Strath Dionard it follows the HT550 route with the exception of a short bit of road from Tomich to just after Cannich. The section from Fort Augustus to Cannich is actually part of the return route of the HT550, the old drove road is now upgraded to a wind turbine road.
I'm not sure who they/he/she is/are.
It's Reg. He's a splinter faction from the Cyclist Mundo Obscura Club. :wink:
They'd have been better off using the Road to the Isles form Rannoch over to Ossian and then the old HT route thereafter. More in keeping with the 'suitable for medium skilled mountainbikers' philosophy and keeps the crowds off my favourite trail over Ben Alder!

This does make me want to make more of a splash with the West Highland 500 route I mapped last year but I'd better ride it first.....

Total agreement with Steve W - Lets keep the R word for these things amongst trusted friends, not all over the internet.
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Richpips
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by Richpips »

A few minutes on google suggests David Wilson of Fort Bill is involved.

FB Cape Wrath Trail Organisation

and this https://www.photoblog.com/ealdhain/2016 ... ike-trail/
ScotRoutes
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by ScotRoutes »

Richpips wrote:A few minutes on google suggests David Wilson of Fort Bill is involved.

FB Cape Wrath Trail Organisation

and this https://www.photoblog.com/ealdhain/2016 ... ike-trail/
Yeah. It's his name on the domain record.
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by AlasdairMc »

whitestone wrote:Not sure of the southern bit but the section from Bridge of Balgie in Glen Lyon as far as the head of Glen Golly above Strath Dionard it follows the HT550 route with the exception of a short bit of road from Tomich to just after Cannich. The section from Fort Augustus to Cannich is actually part of the return route of the HT550, the old drove road is now upgraded to a wind turbine road.
I think it doesn't follow the current HT route via Ben Alder/Culra - there's a mention of Rannoch Station in the notes, and then the Road to the Isles, which would take you to Loch Ossian, from which Laggan is reached by the old HT route and Strath Ossian. The Loch Ericht bogfest is avoided!
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whitestone
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by whitestone »

Ah missed that bit :oops:

Bogfest? Don't know what you mean :wink:
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fatbikephil
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Re: New route, An Turas Mor

Post by fatbikephil »

AlasdairMc wrote:
whitestone wrote:Not sure of the southern bit but the section from Bridge of Balgie in Glen Lyon as far as the head of Glen Golly above Strath Dionard it follows the HT550 route with the exception of a short bit of road from Tomich to just after Cannich. The section from Fort Augustus to Cannich is actually part of the return route of the HT550, the old drove road is now upgraded to a wind turbine road.
I think it doesn't follow the current HT route via Ben Alder/Culra - there's a mention of Rannoch Station in the notes, and then the Road to the Isles, which would take you to Loch Ossian, from which Laggan is reached by the old HT route and Strath Ossian. The Loch Ericht bogfest is avoided!
Ah missed that - much better idea!
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